Car prices are still insane.

[darcane]

Prices of any product should decrease as competition drives them downward. My point was, and is, the last three years have had an alarming increase in price. 2022 alone had a higher rate of inflation of since the disruption to the car market in WW2, wiping out decades of price drops.

[freebeard]

The used car price has gone up recently. I wonder how that compares with 30 years ago.

My first car was eleven years old and cost $100. Plus it was a bullet nose Studebaker. The second one (1946 Ford 4-door) I negotiated down from $80 to $60.

But that was 6 decades, not three.

[darcane]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I see no reason why a robot with at least as much dexterity, tactile feedback, precision, etc couldn't be manufactured. In my view, any assembly process that requires humans to manipulate materials is an engineering failure.

You have to factor in quantity.

Assembling one unit of something means that automation likely is not cost effective. This isn't an engineering failure.

Only when a task is done enough times, does it become cost effective to automate it.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Of course it also depends on how you measure inflation. What a person's actual wages is a big factor too.

In 1993 I was making zero dollars ($0 adjusted for inflation). In 1997 I was making $8.20/hr ($16 adjusted for inflation) as an intern. 2003 I was up to $17/hr ($28 adjusted for inflation). Now about $40. So, 2.35x more pay in 2 decades, not adjusted for inflation.

Originally Posted by darcane

Prices of any product should decrease as competition drives them downward. My point was, and is, the last three years have had an alarming increase in price. 2022 alone had a higher rate of inflation of since the disruption to the car market in WW2, wiping out decades of price drops.

While we're sensitive to moments in time, the trends predict prices to further fall. The 2008 financial collapse "wiped out" a lot of gains, and then we gained it all back and more. In 2020 the stock market lost 1/3rd of the value in a matter of days, and we got it all back.

No idea what to predict with used vehicle pricing, but every good and bad situation is transitory.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by darcane

Prices of any product should decrease as competition drives them downward. My point was, and is, the last three years have had an alarming increase in price. 2022 alone had a higher rate of inflation of since the disruption to the car market in WW2, wiping out decades of price drops.

I like your style - I was looking at that graph last night.

Yes, there was a big spike in 2022. That was a very unique combination of factors - factors that have largely passed. (Although we are still having plants shut down due to part shortages). In 2023 the average car is selling for less than MSRP again and factory rebates / discounted leases have returned to the market. Non-luxury car prices are actually falling.

Used car prices were down 11% YoY in July 2023.


Even at 2023 prices - vehicle prices are still a lot lower than they were 20 - 30 years ago and the vehicle are MUCH better. At least if we are looking at common sedans and crossovers.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

In 1993 I was making zero dollars ($0 adjusted for inflation). In 1997 I was making $8.20/hr ($16 adjusted for inflation) as an intern. 2003 I was up to $17/hr ($28 adjusted for inflation). Now about $40. So, 2.35x more pay in 2 decades, not adjusted for inflation.

Cool! The least I made was $2.50 per hour (less than minimum wage in 1989) and now I make around 10 times that, about $25 per hour. I guess making lots of money was never a priority for me.

Originally Posted by JSH

and the vehicle are MUCH better..

Unless it's a Ford. Although, maybe Fords are much better than they used to be, just not a whole lot better than the rest.

I think my Avalon is the best car I've ever owned in terms of build quality and reliability. It has never broken down, with the exception of a dead 12V battery. In all my other cars there was always something that would break down. The only main thing wrong with the Avalon is the infotainment center has some sort of problem and doesn't work correctly. I do need to find out how much an HV battery replacement will cost so I can save up for it, which should be easier to do now that the car is paid off.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

The Mirage is getting axed though. However, the Nissan Versa is similar in price. But the Nissan Versa will be the last sub $20k car in the USA since the Kia Rio is also being axed. I hope the Versa isn't axed too any time soon.

MY 2025 is the last year for the Versa and Altima. The Sentra will be Nissan's only sedan

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I think my Avalon is the best car I've ever owned in terms of build quality and reliability. It has never broken down, with the exception of a dead 12V battery. In all my other cars there was always something that would break down. The only main thing wrong with the Avalon is the infotainment center has some sort of problem and doesn't work correctly. I do need to find out how much an HV battery replacement will cost so I can save up for it, which should be easier to do now that the car is paid off.

My 2005 and 2009 Prius required nothing but 12V batteries and the 3 way coolant valve that was unique to the 2nd gen Prius.

Plan on $3,000 for an OEM Avalon HV battery

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I guess making lots of money was never a priority for me.

Not my priority either. I happened to have interests that aligned with a decent wage...

Entrepreneurship is still what my interest is, just not good on following through on the interest.

The thing is, I've got no interest in management. I've either got to be janitor, or CEO. Either I have no responsibility, or all of it. Middle-management is for those that are gluttons for punishment.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

MY 2025 is the last year for the Versa and Altima. The Sentra will be Nissan's only sedan

I knew it was coming. So there will be no more sub $20,000 new cars after 2025.

It's sad to see the sedan die out. From an aerodynamic stand point, sedans and station wagons make more sense than crossovers and SUV's. It looks like there's a push for "coupé" SUV's for that very reason.

[redpoint5]

I keep wondering if this is a pendulum thing. Maybe people will realize they actually offroad never, and don't need high ground clearance. Maybe they will get into a sedan and realize they actually like good handling characteristics, and that it's more fun to have a vehicle that handles well.

My Acura TSX feels like a go-kart every time I drive it because I've been habituated to very poorly handling, tall vehicles.

It amazes me when people say the Prius handles poorly. Compared to what, a Civic Si? It handles better than every CUV and SUV.

All that said, I'll never own anything with a trunk again. I've got no use for a trunk, but endless need of a large cargo area accessible in the passenger compartment.