Car prices are still insane.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I keep wondering if this is a pendulum thing. Maybe people will realize they actually offroad never, and don't need high ground clearance. Maybe they will get into a sedan and realize they actually like good handling characteristics, and that it's more fun to have a vehicle that handles well.

My Acura TSX feels like a go-kart every time I drive it because I've been habituated to very poorly handling, tall vehicles.

It amazes me when people say the Prius handles poorly. Compared to what, a Civic Si? It handles better than every CUV and SUV.

All that said, I'll never own anything with a trunk again. I've got no use for a trunk, but endless need of a large cargo area accessible in the passenger compartment.

Being an ex school bus driver and knowing people who've been ran over by SUV's and pickups, it bothers me that you can't see in front of those kinds of vehicles very well.

Today we went on a back road in the Avalon and there were some tall rocks and deep ruts. However, it was pretty easy to avoid them as I can see what's right in front of the car fairly well.

If I ever get a crossover I'm going to put crossover mirrors on the front like a school bus has. After all, the name indicates they should go on a crossover.

[redpoint5]

I've taken the Prius up very steep and rutted logging roads before. Pretty sure 99% of people that think they "need" the ground clearance for the couple hundred feet of gravel road they travel, don't.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I've taken the Prius up very steep and rutted logging roads before. Pretty sure 99% of people that think they "need" the ground clearance for the couple hundred feet of gravel road they travel, don't.

I used to go with Brazilian 1.0L econoboxes some places where the only other vehicles I would see were 40-series Land Cruisers and dirt-bikes. Sure it would be more tempting to go with a VW Beetle, but an Opel Corsa B or early Dacia Logan can be quite funny to drive through some harsh terrain conditions...

[freebeard]

Back in the late 1970s it rained one Sunday at the Oregon Country Fair. It was much like Burning Man this year, a sea of mud.

The only thihgs moving in the parking lot were [all the] VWs, four wheel drive only if they had chains on the front -- and this one crazy [FWD] Renault sedan that was spinning the front wheels and finessing the ruts.

[hayden55]

No kidding. Lack of supply has really disrupted car availability all the way down the ranks. I still see deals here and there as i'm not usually super picky. But when i am, it is not to be found without a nice price bump. 3V mustangs that were $7500 a couple years ago are $15k now which is laughable. Toyota 4wd's we're up 3x. I will say 4wd toyotas are back down since gas is up. Still about 2-3 grand too high in the under 15k market. Give it time. I'm starting to see new vehicles sell below msrp for once.
I will say what is helping now is interest rates a on new car loans are up from around 4-5% to 9-11%, and used car loans are 10-13%. Yikes.
But finally a loan is higher than inflation where it should be.
Things are starting to get priced into where they should be and less and less banks are willing to take on home and auto loans. Deflation will happen slowly as the economy gets priced in more and more people get priced out of almost predatory car loans.

[redpoint5]

I shoulda sold the diesel pickup when prices were highest. Just can't part with her yet.

I financed the Acura not because I needed to, but because a 2.5% loan is less than inflation and the cash left in my pocket can earn ~7% in the stock market. I took out the longest loan I could at that interest rate. Oh, and it was under mom's name because I was simultaneously purchasing a home and needed my income to look sufficient. Bought a 3 bed, 2.5 bath house on a $39k income.

[Isaac Zachary]

If I get the time this weekend, I'm putting the Prius up for sale. I need to get it up for sale and have procrastinated long enough. I'm still divided, as I want to fix it up. But when I have the money I don't have the time, and when I have the time I don't have the money. And there's no way a mechanic is going to want to fix all the problems it has, that is if I can even find a mechanic that works on hybrids around here. At least not for a price worth fixing the car.

[freebeard]

But when I have the money I don't have the time, and when I have the time I don't have the money.

Sounds very familiar.

[Isaac Zachary]

And I'm not complaining! It is what it is. I haven't needed the car and the logical thing to do is to sell it.

Finding a better paying job so as to pay someone to restore an old Prius may not be the most logical thing to do, even if I like the idea of fixing up this Prius.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I knew it was coming. So there will be no more sub $20,000 new cars after 2025.

It's sad to see the sedan die out. From an aerodynamic stand point, sedans and station wagons make more sense than crossovers and SUV's. It looks like there's a push for "coupé" SUV's for that very reason.

It isn't surprising. The sedan's death is a combination of fashion as redpoint said, demographics - the country is aging and most old people don't want to stoop down into low vehicles, and regulations - new side impact tests have a higher barrier that hits cars along to bottom of the greenhouse.

The death of cheap vehicles is a sign of the times as well. The auto industry is going through the biggest change since the 70's with the current shift to electric vehicles. In the US alone companies have committed to a bit over $100 billion in capital spending for new battery and EV assembly plants. Unprofitable and low profit cars and trims are on the chopping block because of opportunity cost. Automakers must maximum profit from every assembly line to pay for the billions they have to spend to completely redesign and retool their business.

It isn't just the bottom end that is dying. Mercedes recently announced they are killing off most of their coupes and convertibles. They are dropping from 33 models to 14.

And when I say automakers need to maximize profit it is important to know that making cars is a very capital intensive business with low profit margins. The UAW likes to talk about huge profits but the profits aren't huge. GM made $9 billion last year - true. Sounds huge until you realize that is only a 6% net profit margin and guaranteed savings bonds paid more last year.

GM stock owners LOST 42% on their investment last year which erased the 41% they made in 2021. The business of business is making money - it is that simple. Automakers used to pay out dividends to make up for the flat stock price but those are mostly gone.