The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[freebeard]

Too many ifs and mights for me.

apparently for POTUS as well.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Should we be doing social and economic engineering that benefit some, and disadvantage others?

I had a late friend who passed at 95. She told me of times when she was a young child that it used to snow on the beaches here in San Diego. I rather like the currently mild weather and the year round bikini temperatures.

I have little doubt that the globe is warming. My only beef is that we have chosen to pin it all on CO2. What if we go ahead and spend trillions a year to mitigate CO2, hampering our advanced economies, only to find we guessed wrong and it was a combination of other factors we did not take into account?

Climate change will affect us all, in ways we have not realized, yet. Changing to renewable energy will help everyone - in fact, since it is distributed all over the globe and cannot be controlled by anybody, it will be better for all of us.

We know that carbon dioxide is driving climate change. It is never a good thing to ignore facts. The tobacco industry denied that nicotine was addictive, and that smoking causes cancer and many other harmful things. That denial of facts was very harmful to a lot of people, and a few people profited by ignoring that harm.

Same thing for leaded gasoline - it needed "more study" they said. Then we got MBTE, which is also quite harmful.

[NeilBlanchard]

Nobody is going to war because of global warming. People affected by land loss will not drown, but slowly migrate over time. Heck, most people can probably live out the rest of their lives where they are, with their descendants planning for a future of higher ocean levels.

Um, no - much of the war in east Africa and in Syria are caused by loss of water, and in places like Bangladesh, the loss of land is affecting millions of people. Syria had an extended drought, which drove many farmers into the cities - and this is happening in many other places, too.

The US military has climate change very high on the list of threats to security. At Norfolk - the largest naval base in the world, they have had to spend millions and millions to RAISE the piers, and people who live in that area have been seeing LOTS of flooding, and they have spent lots of money repairing flood damage. They are faced with LOSS of insurance - and if they can stay insured, the premiums have increased a lot.

Insurance companies can read their actuarial charts, and see the increasing risks. Miami is flooding almost every month. Sea walls and highways are being damaged and destroyed more and more frequently. Boston is considering "reverse" canals - where the water is held away from the buildings. Which is nuts.

Ground water is getting more and more salt water infiltration, in Florida and other places. So, even if you put buildings on piers, where are you going to get water, and where will your sewage go? Florida is corral based land - and you CANNOT built a seawall and keep out the ocean.

Vermont is still rebuilding some of their roads and buildings, after they got hit with 7+ inches of rain in just a few hours, back with a tropical storm called Irene. They didn't have enough gravel in the state to rebuild their roads - they had to truck in from surrounding states. They lost 40+ feet of road beds. In Pakistan, they got 30+ inches of rain in about 3 days - and this washed away several cities and all the roads and bridges were unusable. Something like 12 million people were made homeless in just a few days rain.

Maryland recently has also seen 4+ feet flash floods washing out main streets after several hours of rain. Tornadoes happen all year, now. And wild fires are bigger and more intense and have a much longer season, than in anybody's memory.

Tundra is melting - and it is releasing a lot of carbon dioxide and methane - sometimes violently. Arctic ice volume in September, has hit LESS THAN 20% of what it was in 1980. Antarctic ice is now down a lot from what is was in the 1980's; after hitting a high in 2013 and 2014.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Nobody is going to war because of global warming.

Well, actually they did. The problems in Syria started when climate change resulted in an unprecedented drought which still continues. The people could no longer farm enough food to survive. So they went to their president to ask for food. And he said essentially "Why don't all you tribes that I don't like just hurry up and die". So they said "Oh yeah. How about you die". And that's where it still stands. 5M refugees all through the EU and 6M more still trying to get out.

[oil pan 4]

How will renewables not be controlled by anyone?

All the large wind farms are owned by the power company or an energy company and were built with tax payer money and tax breaks.
All the large scale solar builds are the same way.
All hydro power involving a large dam, samething.

All these renewables are completely dependent on non renewables for every aspect of implementation. All the affordable solar panels are made in China with no regard what so ever for the environment.
You can buy US panels for 3 to 4 time's the cost (last time I checked) and they're likely going to be made by BP or shell. Yes the oil companies.

Put a few grid tie Solar panels on your house? You're still completely depending on the power conpany and you probably used a government hand out and bank loan to pay for it. Then depending on your location, if the local power company is anti solar you could be paying an extra $20 a month the fancy grid tie meter.

Nothing green about off grid solar. Now you run a generator some times to keep your battery bank containing tons of lead acid batteries up. Then those batteries need replacing replaced every 10 years or so. Sooner if you don't use a generator and properly maintain the charge.

Don't get me wrong, I love solar panels and the idea of going off grid but don't pretend it's something it's not.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Um, no - much of the war in east Africa and in Syria are caused by loss of water, and in places like Bangladesh, the loss of land is affecting millions of people. Syria had an extended drought, which drove many farmers into the cities - and this is happening in many other places, too.

The US military has climate change very high on the list of threats to security. At Norfolk - the largest naval base in the world, they have had to spend millions and millions to RAISE the piers, and people who live in that area have been seeing LOTS of flooding, and they have spent lots of money repairing flood damage. They are faced with LOSS of insurance - and if they can stay insured, the premiums have increased a lot.

Insurance companies can read their actuarial charts, and see the increasing risks. Miami is flooding almost every month. Sea walls and highways are being damaged and destroyed more and more frequently. Boston is considering "reverse" canals - where the water is held away from the buildings. Which is nuts.

Ground water is getting more and more salt water infiltration, in Florida and other places. So, even if you put buildings on piers, where are you going to get water, and where will your sewage go? Florida is corral based land - and you CANNOT built a seawall and keep out the ocean.

Vermont is still rebuilding some of their roads and buildings, after they got hit with 7+ inches of rain in just a few hours, back with a tropical storm called Irene. They didn't have enough gravel in the state to rebuild their roads - they had to truck in from surrounding states. They lost 40+ feet of road beds. In Pakistan, they got 30+ inches of rain in about 3 days - and this washed away several cities and all the roads and bridges were unusable. Something like 12 million people were made homeless in just a few days rain.

Maryland recently has also seen 4+ feet flash floods washing out main streets after several hours of rain. Tornadoes happen all year, now. And wild fires are bigger and more intense and have a much longer season, than in anybody's memory.

Tundra is melting - and it is releasing a lot of carbon dioxide and methane - sometimes violently. Arctic ice volume in September, has hit LESS THAN 20% of what it was in 1980. Antarctic ice is now down a lot from what is was in the 1980's; after hitting a high in 2013 and 2014.

So weather is climate now?

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

So weather is climate now?

When the pattern persists for 7 years. Yes.

[oil pan 4]

On the weather channel one of their doctrinal or PhD types was saying 10 to 20 years is climate.
But what does he know.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

On the weather channel one of their doctrinal or PhD types was saying 10 to 20 years is climate.
But what does he know.

Funny! You are grasping. Climate change is weather in the Northern US with the destabilization of the polar vortex.

[freebeard]

Two people I respect, Ben Davidson and Billy Yelverton, with others, discuss the curious phenomenon of 'Earth-facing quiet' in solar activity. I tried a couple of ways to have the video start at 4 minutes 46 seconds. (you will need to do it manually):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF856UMjJEA#t=4m46s

They consider the Mayan Baktun and the possibility that Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's noosphere forms a protective shield.