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Old 08-04-2018, 04:33 AM   #2391 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
The Amish farm sustainably, therefore they inherently farm more efficiently.

Did I need to take the time to use caps lock to show that I am right?
Neil claimed the Amish were "more efficient from a productivity standpoint". Clearly, the Amish are not more productive. I made no claim about other measures of efficiency. Nobody farms sustainably. It's a fictional pop culture term. The claim of sustainability is meaningless without being qualified by some objective definition of what is being sustained and for how long.

That isn't to say we should not explore ways to do less environmental harm, but we have to be honest about what the opportunity cost is when we choose to do something one way over doing it another. There is a price to pay for lower crop yields, and the wealthy may not have a problem paying more for food, but the poor will suffer.

The Amish yield much less food for their hours of labor. They also don't have their own teeth due to lack of modern dental hygiene. I'm sure many are quite happy; perhaps more happy than modern folk.

Are we more likely to shift American culture towards Amish lifestyles, or can we expect people to always want more? Anyone wanting to live a simpler lifestyle is free to do so. I could be very happy living simply, except for my nagging habit of needing to know how everything works and desire to experiment.

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Old 08-04-2018, 05:35 AM   #2392 (permalink)
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If you look at the population density of Amish country and do the math for the available global agricultural area and population, then it is obvious a massive adaption of Amish farm methods would lead to mass extinction.

That is a bit drastic for the sake of sustainability, even if the Amish way is sustainable (in the different weather conditions and temperatures around the world f.i.)

A gradual adaptation might work. What is the Amish stance on birth control?
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:45 AM   #2393 (permalink)
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Pretty sure birth control is abstinence until marriage, and then it's controlled by the woman's fertility cycle.
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:48 AM   #2394 (permalink)
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So I take it the Amish generally have many children? How sustainable is that?
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:05 AM   #2395 (permalink)
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Quote:
Amish families are large, with 6-7 children on average.
Quote:
Yet Amish families remain large, with an agrarian tradition and a need for manual labor also supporting a high Amish birth rate.
How many children do Amish have?

So, needing 6-7 children to perform all of the labor on the farm is unsustainable?

How long before the Amish take over the U.S.?
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:31 PM   #2396 (permalink)
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It has to stop somewhere, or otherwise around the year 8500 or so there'd be more Amish than atoms in the universe.
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Old 08-04-2018, 03:53 PM   #2397 (permalink)
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incremental reductions

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Factory farming methods have been the most incredible human invention so far. We're not going to go back to hunting and gathering.

Just because something has unintended negative consequences (externalities) doesn't mean we abandon everything. It's a challenge to do less harm, not a challenge to give up and starve... and we would starve if modern farming methods were abandoned. It would make global warming look like a picnic.



Or, we could make incremental reductions in fossil fuel use; enough to not experience catastrophic economic hardship due to scare oil supply. We don't need to be off fossil fuels completely, only vastly reduce consumption eventually.

Energy production could look something like this in the future:

In 2017,James Hansen talked of reducing carbon emissions at 6%/year, if we're not to overshoot the 2-degree C average,mean global temperature target.
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:09 PM   #2398 (permalink)
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grow your own

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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Stop factory farming?
Sure grow your own.
I attempted agricultural when I lived in maine 20 years ago. I was marginally successful growing my own. I was more successful with a rifle or shotgun, eating what was eating my garden.

I'm trying again in new Mexico but it's a completely different set of problems.

Right now may be peak food.
Growing your own may be our only option for fresh food in the near future.

Check out the YouTube chanel for "ice age farmer".
We're in the worst growing season in a century according to CBS News.Even our trees are dying.Sweet!
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:27 PM   #2399 (permalink)
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Firewood!

Forest fires...

We need to burn them before they spontaneously combust!

Or, like I keep saying, send the street sweepers through to clean up the underbrush.
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Old 08-04-2018, 09:38 PM   #2400 (permalink)
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Massive crop failures have largely been due to a late start to the growing season because the weather didn't warm up as expected, then the spring tended to be cool and wet, then the summers were dry.

Glad to see CBS catching up to reality.
A few of the agricultural centric YouTube channels have been saying the world has been having bad growing seasons for a year now.
Last year in the northern hemisphere rains came late crops couldn't be harvested. In the southern hemisphere winter stayed late, spring was cool and damp, summer was dry then the same thing happened this year in the north.

So glad to see the lame stream media on board now that the problem has been known for nearly year.

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