The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[oil pan 4]

I found this after about 20 seconds of searching Google.
Banqiao hydroelectric dam, China 1975

https://www.businessinsider.com/dam-...f-death-2017-2

At least 171,000 killed but it could have been as high as 230,000.
It looks like my 250,000 estimate was really low. 300,000 is likely the low estimate.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I found this after about 20 seconds of searching Google.
Banqiao hydroelectric dam, China 1975

https://www.businessinsider.com/dam-...f-death-2017-2

At least 171,000 killed but it could have been as high as 230,000.
It looks like my 250,000 estimate was really low. 300,000 is likely the low estimate.

So, let's see that.

... From 1951 to 1952, China built the giant hydroelectric dam on the Ruhe River with help from the Soviet Union. But in early August 1975, a unusual typhoon moved into the area and broke records for rainfall upriver, pushing the limits that engineers designed for the dam.

On August 8, 1975, the dam collapsed and sent a wall of water nearly 20 feet (6 meters) high and 7.5 miles wide (12 kilometers) downriver, according to a summary of a chapter in the book “The River Dragon Has Come!” by investigative journalist Dai Qing.

The torrent wrecked other dams along the river and killed an estimated 85,000 people. When accounting for later deaths caused by flood-related disease and famine, however, the toll may actually be closer to 220,000 to 230,000 people.

This devastating outlier pushes the statistical risk of dams dozens of times higher, to 54.7 deaths per 10 TWh – about 46 times more risk than nuclear power. Business Insider contacted the National Hydropower Association for comment on the risk hydroelectric dams pose in the US, but we did not immediately receive a response.

So:
- the dam was hit by an exceptionally big typhoon
- the dam was poorly designed (no overflow safegate, or not enough)
- the major cause of death was disease and famine after the event.

This was an outlier event that could and should have been prevented by better design, and the majority of death could have been prevented if the victims had been evacuated and been cared for better. Unfortunately, 1975 was not a good time to be in Communist China.
It says nothing about the safety of hydroelectric power from smaller and properly designed and maintained dams.

If you look at US data only, hydroelectric is the safest power only second to nuclear.

[freebeard]

We'll never know the toll from wind power. The victims littered the ocean's floors until the age of steam.

[NeilBlanchard]

Fossil fuels kill hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of people, around the world EVERY YEAR. Pollution and spills, alone cause lots of damage and destruction.

Pollution: Air and Water Pollution Are Killing Millions of Americans | Time

WHO | 7 million premature deaths annually linked to air pollution

This says there are 4,400 deaths in just China PER DAY:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0ab468d9cefa9

That's 1.6 Million per year JUST IN CHINA.

Here's another that says air pollution kills 200,000 per year in the US:

https://news.mit.edu/2013/study-air-...in-the-us-0829

[oil pan 4]

I will never live down stream from a hydroelectric dam.
That would be about as intelligent as living below sea level.

The first sentence in "200,000 deaths per year caused by air pollution" says vehicles are the biggest contributor.

I was talking power generation versus power generation not power generation and transportation versus power generation. That's like comparing grapes to grapefruit.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I will never live down stream from a hydroelectric dam.
That would be about as intelligent as living below sea level.

Probably most people live downstream of a hydroelectric dam. It's safer than living above it, where there is no control mechanism for the variable amount of water nature delivers.

General fear of dam failure is unreasonable. Most people die of cardiovascular disease and cancer. For the 80% of Americans that are at least overweight, this should be their primary safety concern.

[oil pan 4]

But why tempt fate?
I'm not over weight, I'm 2 to 3 stone away from being at my max recommend weight.

I like moat people could deal with slow rising flood waters better than a 20 ft high wall of water and debris moving 60mph.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I will never live down stream from a hydroelectric dam.
That would be about as intelligent as living below sea level.

Yeah, guess I'm on the edge of stupid then, or used to be for most of my life anyway, just like more than half of my countrymen?
You are so nice.

I would not have a problem living downstream a dam, if its design is inherently safe. The China dam wasn't and the Laos dam wasn't either. 70 meter of water and it wasn't even completed, let alone operational.
The Hoover dam had a bypass. The Laos dam did not, apparently. Stupid, irresponsible, but not relevant to hydropower in most other countries.

[oil pan 4]

1,600 people died needlessly here in 2005 when hurricane Katrina hit new Orleans, because it is below sea level. Everyone said they lived their whole lives or how ever many years there and didn't think it could happen to them.
History tells us any time it's man versus the sea the seas always win, it's only a matter of time.

All dams are safe until they wash away a city, then you hear about how unsafe they were and all the problems they had.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

1,600 people died needlessly here in 2005 when hurricane Katrina hit new Orleans, because it is below sea level. Everyone said they lived their whole lives or how ever many years there and didn't think it could happen to them.
History tells us any time it's man versus the sea the seas always win, it's only a matter of time.

2,977 people died in the WTC attack. Should I avoid buildings since they are inherently dangerous when people fly planes into them?

1,600 people is practically nothing compared to total deaths.

Everything is just a matter of time, it's just that cardiovascular disease and cancer usually takes us before other very unlikely circumstances do.

Perhaps when science eliminates natural causes of death and aging I will worry about living below a dam. Until then, I won't give a dam.