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Old 08-27-2018, 09:16 AM   #2571 (permalink)
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Sunpower already reached 24,1% efficience (photovoltaic cell efficience) and 22% solar panel efficience (panel area have some gaps and spaces between cells and the eva film and glass layers also too some of the sun light))

There are potential problem with solar power and electric vehicles, that nobody realise yet.

Ok, let's just supose solar panels had got 45% efficiency and 40% of actual cost. Everyboday started to add solar panels, and they wait the extra energy would render credits to pay the energy consumed at night.
And let's supose electric cars had the advanced of a new breakthrough battery 12 times denser in energy storage than lithium, and able of very fast recharge (30 times faster than actual lithium)and the cars got the same price as ordinary cars.

But there are many problems:

-If everyone got solar panels, there will be need of energy storage, otherwise coal power plants would still need to work at night. So if everybody got solar power in home there will be no more energy credits to pay the night energy bill.

-With no storage of energy,m industries would need to work in day, when there is sun light, unles the coal power plants works by night just for the industry work at night.

-Without energy storage and everyone producing, the net of energy, the lines, during day, could have problems, since a suddun heavy cloud would dramaticly reduce the energy production in a few minutes.

-Cars while recharging so fast would drain a lot of energy from a local net line, and could create problems. Imagine if many people together would recharge the car.

Look this equation:

P1xV1 = P2xV2
T1.......... T2

Is that possible to use water heated 55 celsius degrees, to generate water in 100 celsius degress?
If was possible the concentrated solar power that use multi juntuon solar cells with 1000 suns, and cooled by water, maybe could also generate power by moving turbines. Some stearling engines work with lower temperatures than boiling water. Also it's possible to use heat transfer devices to evaporate liquids with lower boiling points (but would be a closed sytem and expansive).

Just toughs...


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Old 08-27-2018, 11:13 AM   #2572 (permalink)
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Forget about electric cars. Air conditioners are the major load during the day in the summer.
Then heating late at night during the winter.

Electric cars won't be the problem for a long time since only about 1.5 out of 1,000 cars on the road are electric, in the US.
Every house has air conditioning.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:56 AM   #2573 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Darc View Post
Ok, let's just supose solar panels had got 45% efficiency and 40% of actual cost. Everyboday started to add solar panels, and they wait the extra energy would render credits to pay the energy consumed at night.
And let's supose electric cars had the advanced of a new breakthrough battery 12 times denser in energy storage than lithium, and able of very fast recharge (30 times faster than actual lithium)and the cars got the same price as ordinary cars.
That would solve all the problems. Solar would be cheaper than any other power at that efficiency and cost. Batteries that energy dense and cheap would solve the storage problem.

Problem is, it's unlikely for battery or solar technology to make big breakthroughs in performance or price. We've been developing these technologies for decades, so the low hanging fruit of efficiency and cost has already been picked. Technology is bound by the laws of chemistry and physics; something many people don't seem to understand. Throwing money at developing technology is no guarantee that meaningful progress will be made.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:03 PM   #2574 (permalink)
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Thanks, you found a mistake in my arguing about such scenario. I should took off the proposed advance in battery, since it spoils my proposed critic to solar panels became cheaper and more efficient.

Ok, now consider my previous solar panels scenario and critics, without my consideration about eletric cars became affordable and long range. Please :-)

By the way, there was already a idea/plan to connect electric car on grid, from small "green" neighborhoods (with people with solar panels on home) or something like that in some cities on Europe, to use their batteries to help supply energy for homes at night. But it would reduce the lifespam of the car's batteries anyway, and very few people have electric cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
That would solve all the problems. Solar would be cheaper than any other power at that efficiency and cost. Batteries that energy dense and cheap would solve the storage problem.

Problem is, it's unlikely for battery or solar technology to make big breakthroughs in performance or price. We've been developing these technologies for decades, so the low hanging fruit of efficiency and cost has already been picked. Technology is bound by the laws of chemistry and physics; something many people don't seem to understand. Throwing money at developing technology is no guarantee that meaningful progress will be made.

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Old 08-27-2018, 12:43 PM   #2575 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Doesn't need fuel also doesn't produce power for most of the day.
Wind power produces electricity most / all of the time, if it is sited correctly, and if it is distributed over a wide enough area.

Wave and tidal power produce electricity a majority of the time.

Biomass can produce electricity all of the time.

Storage of many different types can store power to smooth out the deliver of electricity.

And storage can help a lot even for conventional generation sources.

************

By combining 3 or more renewable sources, and having some storage, we can produce electricity more dependably than convention sources. This is because, renewable sources generally fail in small increments, and / or it can be predicted. Also, maintenance can be done progressively - small portions can be worked up, while the remaining systems keep going.

Solar closely matches the peak demand of power, for A/C. So, it is a good thing that it "only" produces power during the day.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:46 PM   #2576 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Forget about electric cars. Air conditioners are the major load during the day in the summer.
Then heating late at night during the winter.

Electric cars won't be the problem for a long time since only about 1.5 out of 1,000 cars on the road are electric, in the US.
Every house has air conditioning.
Electric cars could be a big help to the grid. Since all cars sit parked about 90% of the time on average, if even a small fraction of them were plugged in while parked - they could be used a vast storage system, that could buffer the grid demands.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:50 PM   #2577 (permalink)
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Look the first idea in this video :



Not much power, but for 12 homes (USA standart or 3* world standart ? ). Probably more expensive per watt than damns.
 
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:54 PM   #2578 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Darc View Post
By the way, there was already a idea/plan to connect electric car on grid, from small "green" neighborhoods (with people with solar panels on home) or something like that in some cities on Europe, to use their batteries to help supply energy for homes at night. But it would reduce the lifespam of the car's batteries anyway, and very few people have electric cars.
This is my favorite plan, but it has many social and technical problems to address.

The battery will degrade more quickly from being constantly utilized, but the idea is that the utility would pay customers for the energy used during peak demand, and that would more than compensate for the accelerated wear on the battery. The electric vehicles could charge up when excess renewable energy is produced, and feed it back to the grid when there is a shortage. Customers would have an app on their phones to designate the times of day that the car participates in grid leveling, and also designate times when the car must be fully charged.

Heck, maybe the utility could even send alerts when demand is particularly severe and offer a higher rate than normal to supply energy, giving EV owners an extra incentive to participate in grid leveling. Kind of how Uber charges riders more when demand is high, in real time.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:09 PM   #2579 (permalink)
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What about home wind turbines :

https://semtive.com/buy/

Not cheap... Probably more than solar panels. And require good anual incidence winds where you live. But it works at night, if you have often winds in the area.

But... I bet if China take the market for home wind turbines, the prices will be 1/3 of that.
 
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Old 08-27-2018, 02:28 PM   #2580 (permalink)
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Wind is cheaper in my neck of the woods than solar. I'm at the 45th parallel with rain half the days.

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