The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[freebeard]

I just don't think we have to resort to totalitarian governments in order to make something that a free market WILL provide when it actually makes sense to do so.

Would that we had a free market. Farm, oil, highway or even solar tax subsidies are a form of soft tyranny.

[Panther140]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Would that we had a free market. Farm, oil, highway or even solar tax subsidies are a form of soft tyranny.

That depends on how you define "soft tyranny".

In the majority of cases, I disagree with government (especially federal) picking winners/losers in the economy.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Panther140

Maybe for you city people

Billions of people live in big cities for which any of your suggestions do not apply. And don't forget, your energy footprint is not just what you control around your house. Roads, schools, hospitals, factories, your generator, your boots, are all made from vast amounts of energy that your are partaking in.

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We can't wait until fossil fuel gets too expensive to start building it's replacement since it takes vast amounts of energy, mostly in the form of liquid fuel, to build large things or mine the raw materials we need for things like GigaFactories and installing wind turbines.
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For instance, it takes the output of 75 SolarStar farms for EV driving to replace the gas that is used in California alone. And billions of tons of batteries.

[oil pan 4]

Yeah since all renewable power is completely dependent upon fossil fuels for every aspect from design to full scale production.

[Panther140]

Originally Posted by sendler

Billions of people live in big cities for which any of your suggestions do not apply. And don't forget, your energy footprint is not just what you control around your house. Roads, schools, hospitals, factories, your generator, your boots, are all made from vast amounts of energy that your are partaking in.

.
We can't wait until fossil fuel gets too expensive to start building it's replacement since it takes vast amounts of energy, mostly in the form of liquid fuel, to build large things or mine the raw materials we need for things like GigaFactories and installing wind turbines.
.
For instance, it takes the output of 75 SolarStar farms for EV driving to replace the gas that is used in California alone. And billions of tons of batteries.

Right, billions of people do live in big cities. Sounds like a problem that the local kings and queens can solve for their pawns. I don't give a rat's ass what you guys do. I am self reliant, self sufficient, and I do not wish to be told what to do. If you don't have any land to pass on, don't have kids. There. Population problem solved in one single generation. You're the ones complaining. You're also the ones over populating your areas.

Nobody is stopping messiahs like yourself from finding solutions to your doomsday forecasts. If you want to, go ahead. Destroy 500-1,000 square miles of natural land to build a solar farm and power only the cars in each state. That sounds like a reasonable solution that would not negatively impact the planet at all if used on a global scale. (sarcasm)

Do you know how much lithium oxide that would require? Have you seen a lithium mine?

Why are all of your eggs in one basket? Why are EVs, totalitarian dictators, and solar panels the only comprehensible solution for your faction?

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Panther140

Right, billions of people do live in big cities. Sounds like a problem that the local kings and queens can solve for their pawns. I don't give a rat's ass what you guys do. I am self reliant, self sufficient, and I do not wish to be told what to do.

Well, not really. I dare you to totally disconnect from society. Never purchase another item. Or use any service. Nothing. You are nowhere near self reliant.
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And even if you were, your narrow views and recomendations do not help anything. The situation is what it is. 7.5 Billion people. Going for 11. Please join us in taking a system view of the world that you share to help make wise decisions to move forward
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But I do agree. Women's education and planned parenthood worldwide in order to get to a negative population growth is crucial.
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Too bad this would lead to a complete and permanant crash of our current economic system which requires constant growth. Of at least 3% now since we have borrowed so much money from the future. We are caught in a trap. The same thing happens if we try to reduce energy consumption. The economy fails. I see a lot of selfish attitudes but no real answers. Please everyone. Do some research. And join in trying to find an amicable way out of this mess.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Yeah since all renewable power is completely dependent upon fossil fuels for every aspect from design to full scale production.

Very true. Which is why I feel we need to focus what we have now and quit wasting our efforts on things like Mars. If we are counting on a high tech solution to replace the dense energy gift we now enjoy and keep this big ball rolling. I hope we do not realize too late that we can't build enough storage to make 100% intermittents work and then be stuck without enough affordable liquid fuels and no research complete on GenIV to add nuclear for baseload generation.

[oil pan 4]

I'm surprised no one has brought up that it's gotten so warm on mars water vapor clouds seen for the first time ever.
Kind of throws a wrench into the whole man made rapid global warming hoaxpothysis and that the sun is responsible for most of it.

[sendler]

Home sweet home.

[freebeard]

Right, billions of people do live in big cities. Sounds like a problem that the local kings and queens can solve for their pawns. I don't give a rat's ass what you guys do. I am self reliant, self sufficient, and I do not wish to be told what to do. If you don't have any land to pass on, don't have kids. There. Population problem solved in one single generation. You're the ones complaining. You're also the ones over populating your areas.

...(sarcasm)

Why are all of your eggs in one basket? Why are EVs, totalitarian dictators, and solar panels the only comprehensible solution for your faction?

Who's eggs and who's basket??? How many descendents to over-fill your survivalist compound?

Sounds like your head is full of kings and queens and dictators. How quaint. The whole planet has been eaten alive by anarchism.

Your kings queens and dictators can continue to squeal and strut, but the foundation of a system of bottom-up global governance is laid — anonymity, authentication and cryto-coins/currencies. Via the world's largest functioning anarchist system; the one that is letting us talk right now — Internet.