The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[Panther140]

Originally Posted by sendler

1- Somehow even the concept of separate nations on our shared planet must go away in order to implement a carbon tax right when it comes out of the ground to put a true price on it's head.

2- But the world economy would irrevocably crash and require the repatriation and redistribution of hidden wealth.

3- There must also unfortunately be a new idealogical crusade against any doctrines that do not accept science and that promote positive population growth.
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1- So the movement seeks to control the entire world? Because that is precisely what you just wrote.

2- So the movement seeks to thoroughly strip everybody in the world of everything that they have, and then re purpose the assets according to the interests of the leaders?

3- Of course, every movement like yours has required extensive thought control and brainwashing. It is vital that you devalue all opposing viewpoints by alleging them of "not accepting science". Extra style points awarded if your leaders behead the dissenters who are vastly superior to you as scientists, and use the scientific method to debunk .

[oil pan 4]

Control and money, that's all it ever was about.

[sendler]

Discount the prospect of climate change if you like. Eventually the billions of refugees will just emmigrate away from constantly storm flooded areas.
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The second problem of over population and fossil energy depletion is just as dangerous. The current economic theories were developed and practiced during a one time stroboscopic carbon pulse of explosive growth and will not be valid without it. We are counting on high technology to save our current way of life. But it takes energy to implement the changes. Rebuilding all infrastucture to replace the carbon energy with electric takes a century. So we need wise scientific decisions now and a focused effort to get things done before fossil energy gets too expensive to do anything about it.

[iveyjh]

Originally Posted by Panther140

1- So the movement seeks to control the entire world? Because that is precisely what you just wrote.

2- So the movement seeks to thoroughly strip everybody in the world of everything that they have, and then re purpose the assets according to the interests of the leaders?

3- Of course, every movement like yours has required extensive thought control and brainwashing. It is vital that you devalue all opposing viewpoints by alleging them of "not accepting science". Extra style points awarded if your leaders behead the dissenters who are vastly superior to you as scientists, and use the scientific method to debunk .

Oh, you mean what's going on right now.

[oil pan 4]

Climate change does happen. There is absolutely no logical argument that it doesn't.
But there are those in power that won't let a natural phenomenon go to waste with out trying to exploit it for their own gain.

[freebeard]

Panther140 — Thanks. I missed that the first time around. Yikes.

Discount the prospect of climate change if you like. Eventually the billions of refugees will just emmigrate away from constantly storm flooded areas.
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The second problem of over population and fossil energy depletion is just as dangerous.

The prospect is an oncoming ice age, like the Maunder Minimum. Seriously. It's the Sun/Earth/Moon gravity couple.

Did you know they are homing in on Isaac Asimov's Positronic Brain? https://www.wired.com/story/brain-built-on-switches/

The device is a far cry from conventional computers, which are based on minute wires imprinted on silicon chips in highly ordered patterns. The current pilot version is a 2-millimeter-by-2-millimeter mesh of silver nanowires connected by artificial synapses. Unlike silicon circuitry, with its geometric precision, this device is messy, like “a highly interconnected plate of noodles,” Stieg said. And instead of being designed, the fine structure of the UCLA device essentially organized itself out of random chemical and electrical processes.

Yet in its complexity, this silver mesh network resembles the brain. The mesh boasts 1 billion artificial synapses per square centimeter, which is within a couple of orders of magnitude of the real thing. The network’s electrical activity also displays a property unique to complex systems like the brain: “criticality,” a state between order and chaos indicative of maximum efficiency.
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Moreover, preliminary experiments suggest that this neuromorphic (brainlike) silver wire mesh has great functional potential. It can already perform simple learning and logic operations. It can clean the unwanted noise from received signals, a capability that’s important for voice recognition and similar tasks that challenge conventional computers. And its existence proves the principle that it might be possible one day to build devices that can compute with an energy efficiency close to that of the brain.

One could run a whole country on the power of a[n incandescent] light bulb. Of course, Asimov claimed the Positronic brain was made from an alloy of platinum and iridium. Probably a calculated mis-direction?

[sendler]

Hagens not half jokingly recommends that we should have saved the fossil carbon to deploy in order to stave off the next ice age. But that doesn't address the other half of the problem you guys are ignoring which is that we are trapped in a growth dependent economy that is completely reliant on fossil fuel which will eventually run low and start an endless depression. And it takes a century to replace it with something else.

[freebeard]

You are right, the path forward is to leave it in the ground. On the second half, let's look at the front page of /futurology. Oh, my:

the Guardian:The war on coal is over. Coal lost.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...over-coal-lost

More than 4,000MW of coal power slated for retirement in Texas. But why?
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...texas-but-why/

In 2008, coal supplied 51% of US power. Today, it’s 31%, and that could fall.

Tax that.

[Panther140]

Originally Posted by sendler

Rebuilding all infrastucture to replace the carbon energy with electric takes a century. So we need wise scientific decisions now and a focused effort to get things done before fossil energy gets too expensive to do anything about it.

If fossil fuels become scarce, then the price on them will increase to the point at which everybody will switch to alternatives.

Are you under the impression that carbon based energy is inherently fossil-fuel based?

Are you under the impression that electricity is inherently not?

I agree that it is important to have alternative energy sources. I just don't think we have to resort to totalitarian governments in order to make something that a free market WILL provide when it actually makes sense to do so.

[Panther140]

Originally Posted by sendler

Hagens not half jokingly recommends that we should have saved the fossil carbon to deploy in order to stave off the next ice age. But that doesn't address the other half of the problem you guys are ignoring which is that we are trapped in a growth dependent economy that is completely reliant on fossil fuel which will eventually run low and start an endless depression. And it takes a century to replace it with something else.

Maybe for you city people, it will take that long. I can run any of my vehicles and generators on either hydrogen, wood gas, or alcohol. I heat my house entirely with wood in the winter. My land provides a sufficient quantity of bio mass to sustain my energy consumption. Just look at all of the carbon based fuel that is being wasted in the forest fires out west right now. We should be burning that wood for our own benefit, and then spreading the ashes back into the forests. Thats what I do. I have 100 beautiful acres of woodland, and 80 acres of crop land. I personally pull more CO2 out of the atmosphere than any of your politicians could ever expect an individual to do. I am net-carbon -300%.

There have been energy crisis in the past. Didn't take long to convert to alternative fuels. Didn't require a complex power grid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas