Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Closed Thread  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-02-2019, 10:20 AM   #4781 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,756

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 212
Thanked 2,895 Times in 2,259 Posts
The grapes can't sour if they never grew in the first place.

Getting people to pay to fix man made global warming has always been dead on arrival, only problem is you are just now figuring it out. Even most of the believers don't want to pay for it.
Remember how I said the global warming movement will collapse on its self by 2022, this is the beginning of the end.
If they aren't willing to pay for it then they don't really believe in it.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
 
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-02-2019, 12:24 PM   #4782 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 11,487
Thanks: 18,493
Thanked 6,034 Times in 3,683 Posts
report

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
I stumbled onto this World energy report 2017 -2050

https://seekingalpha.com/article/408...-annual-report
.
.

.
.
Psychedelic!
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
 
Old 02-02-2019, 12:49 PM   #4783 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 11,487
Thanks: 18,493
Thanked 6,034 Times in 3,683 Posts
the time

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I never said hydropower was a bad thing.
You are just putting up strawmen where none exist.
But the time to build them was in the 1920s through WWII.
Hydro power is the only really large scale power generation that can cover the base load and is reliable.
*You made a blanket attack against government.
*I gave an example of a public good provided by government,which continues to this day to pay dividends to US citizens.
*The economist's Great Depression didn't initiate until 1929.
*Unlike 1893,the robber barons and one-percenters didn't step in to rescue the economy.
*We didn't have a socialist president in office until 1933.So the 1920s is too early for a start.
*Since we didn't bomb Tokyo and Berlin in 1936,things progressed on to WW-II.
*Nationalizations didn't occurr until after Pearl Harbor.
*Hydropower was expanded through the war,but the premise was for gaseous diffusion of fissile material for the Manhattan Project.
*Only after Nagasaki,did the 'Dollar-a-year-men' have access to some of the socialist power,as we immediately transitioned into Cold War nuclear proliferation,which ate enormous quantities of power.
*Hydro's great,but we're already kind of built out on that?
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
 
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
RedDevil (02-02-2019)
Old 02-02-2019, 01:51 PM   #4784 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,737

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 55.71 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 29.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,516
Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,317 Posts
pay to fix versus pay to waste

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The grapes can't sour if they never grew in the first place.

Getting people to pay to fix man made global warming has always been dead on arrival, only problem is you are just now figuring it out. Even most of the believers don't want to pay for it.
Remember how I said the global warming movement will collapse on its self by 2022, this is the beginning of the end.
If they aren't willing to pay for it then they don't really believe in it.
The point is the 'fix' for global warming is not a fix, but rather a reduction of the pollution we cause.
You are opposed to taxing fossil fuel. Then there's little incentive to reduce its use, and no way to pay for the measures needed to fight the effects like rising sea level.
Libertarians don't want governing, no? Let everyone decide for themselves...

Well, that's fine for things that affect only yourself.
The way I see it things should be governed at the level most relevant to the scope of the matter at hand.

If the doctor says you need to diet, and you don't and grow obese, that's your own choice. You may suffer from it, but probably nobody else does.
If you like to smoke it is another matter. You don't only put yourself at risk, but also everybody else in the same room. So if you are by yourself, go ahead, but otherwise you should not.
If you throw your trash on the street you influence the neighborhood, and chances are they'll get back at you. The guidelines what to do with your trash are a municipality matter.

if you burn fossil fuel the carbon spreads over the entire world. The scope is the entire world, and the problem needs to be tackled on a global scale.
We can't protect the climate if some nations keep spilling carbon like there's no tomorrow.

The fault in the questionnaire was the way the question was put.
It is ridiculous to ask people to pay money to fix global warming.
Instead they should have asked how much one should pay for wasting.
Would you let people pay $10 for every ton of CO2 they release, to help save the climate? I bet more than 32% would say "Yes" to that.

Littering is not taken lightly. Why is putting enormous amounts of carbon into the atmosphere allowed, then?
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.16 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Most people are in the longest queue.

Last edited by RedDevil; 02-02-2019 at 02:02 PM..
 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-02-2019), NeilBlanchard (02-03-2019)
Old 02-02-2019, 01:59 PM   #4785 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 16,615
Thanks: 4,395
Thanked 5,587 Times in 4,450 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
I was saying I don't know the person in the countdown timer, but I also don't know who BPS is. You'd be surprised how much I don't know. :P
No more surprising to me than how much I don't know.

Anyways, it was AOC. While we are weighing the opinions of scientist and researchers, there exists a junior member of our Congress that is promoting a Green New Deal. Read it and weep.


In other news[ for nerds], https://science.slashdot.org/story/1...ingly-accurate
__________________
.

Change my, you know, the thing.

_________________
 
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-02-2019)
Old 02-02-2019, 02:38 PM   #4786 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 11,487
Thanks: 18,493
Thanked 6,034 Times in 3,683 Posts
Green New Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
No more surprising to me than how much I don't know.

Anyways, it was AOC. While we are weighing the opinions of scientist and researchers, there exists a junior member of our Congress that is promoting a Green New Deal. Read it and weep.


In other news[ for nerds], https://science.slashdot.org/story/1...ingly-accurate
Neighbors gave me the January 14/21,2019 The Nation,with an article about the Green New Deal,by Mike Konczal,page 5.
*He mentions US Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's involvement with the Sunrise Movement.
*45% CO2 cut by 2030 (leaving 55% of emissions)
*100% renewable electric power(my guess,as he's not specific)
*10,000,000 new high-tech training/jobs in first 10-years
*investing in collapsing communities
*self-avowed lack of specifics
*goal: Congressional hearings
*create legislation for 2020
*define needs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was left with the impression that these people are operating in their right hemisphere,and have no grasp of reality,just operating on buzz concepts,emotionally driven,without a clue as to the implications of what they're advocating.Rumsfeldian 'unknown unknowns.'
They'd accomplish more simply through their own consumer spending patterns.Voting with their dollars.
The marketplace is a perfect democracy.They don't need Congress to know what the right thing to do is.As if Congress were aware of that anyway.
I don't see a way through what Eric Alterman describes in the same issue,as a 'false equivalence',between lies and reality,already log-jamming the policy process.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
NeilBlanchard (02-03-2019), RedDevil (02-02-2019)
Old 02-02-2019, 03:30 PM   #4787 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,737

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 55.71 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 29.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,516
Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,317 Posts
It is a goals versus systems problematic.
One can set a goal of 100% renewables, but with no system in place to get there it is a paper tiger.
Not that it is hard to think of some.
Systems could be stimulation of efficiency measures, subsidizing green power (by the kWh instead of build funds, no building obsolete installations but let the revenue make it worthwhile to build them), tax polluting energy forms gradually.

These remain nudges so the end effect is hard to predict with precision.
But you cannot nudge to 100%. Nor do we really need to yet.
It would already be an achievement if we can set a trend for emissions reduction.

Nudges can take different shapes too.
EV owners are likely to install PV panels on their home. Instead of subsidizing PV panels one could stimulate EVs for the same effect.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.16 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Most people are in the longest queue.

Last edited by RedDevil; 02-02-2019 at 06:00 PM..
 
The Following User Says Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-02-2019)
Old 02-02-2019, 03:34 PM   #4788 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 16,615
Thanks: 4,395
Thanked 5,587 Times in 4,450 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead
They'd accomplish more simply through their own consumer spending patterns.Voting with their dollars.
The marketplace is a perfect democracy.They don't need Congress to know what the right thing to do is.As if Congress were aware of that anyway.
Consistent with my belief that change should bubble up from the bottom rather than 'reign' down from the top.
__________________
.

Change my, you know, the thing.

_________________
 
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-02-2019)
Old 02-02-2019, 09:24 PM   #4789 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,756

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 212
Thanked 2,895 Times in 2,259 Posts
You act like I'm the only one.
68% of people are unwilling to pay $10 or more per month.
As queen Nancy said before passing Obamacare: "we have the votes and that's all that matteres".
It works both ways.
I am part of the vast, overwhelming majority.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 02-02-2019 at 09:37 PM..
 
The Following User Says Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
roosterk0031 (02-03-2019)
Old 02-02-2019, 09:35 PM   #4790 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,756

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 212
Thanked 2,895 Times in 2,259 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Consistent with my belief that change should bubble up from the bottom rather than 'reign' down from the top.
I think we need to forget about the system of taxation and penalizing the consumer. The biggest way to make a difference would be to build nuclear power plants to replace coal power plants then eventually natural gas power plants too. Make electricity the cheaper better option, electricity can stay the same or get cheaper, oil is going to become more expensive.
Then in 50 years when these fission plants are worn out they may be obsolete. If not, build newer better ones.

Taxation and penalties really don't fix anything. People are still going to turn on an air conditioner or charge an electric vehicle and use mostly fossil fuel power, most people will continue to buy gasoline vehicles, big trains aren't going to switch to electric.
You accomplish nothing but a whole lot of pain for a little bit of conservation.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
roosterk0031 (02-03-2019)
Closed Thread  Post New Thread


Tags
lies, opinion, reality, scam

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com