The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[aerohead]

Hawaii saw up to 191-mph winds,60-foot waves,and snow,in a fatal winter storm over the weekend.Typically,the hurricane season there is June through November.
The Mauna Kea astronomical observatory on the big island is at 13,796-feet,so snow there is a pretty regular thing.I saw it there in 1986.
The only thing really novel was snow on Maui.Haleakala summit is only 10,023-feet.The report mentioned that the low elevation of the snowline will probably be a new record.There was no snow there in 1986.

[freebeard]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tesla+tower+in+texas


Strange Looking 'Tesla Tower' In Texas Aims To Transmute Electricity Wirelessly - 12160 Social Network

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The climate alarmists seem to be saying something along the lines of "Jim is dead". But then I point and say, "Jim's over there, and he's waving at us."... Then the alarmists say "No, Jim's dead, and even if he isn't, he'll be dead soon"...

I provide evidence such as this:



...and get a reply like "no, disease is killing everyone due to a 1 degree temperature rise".

Somehow I feel you are targeting me, but if so this story misses the point completely.

You were saying cold related issues kill more people than heat related issues, implying global warming is a good thing.
You did not provide any data to back your claim.

I did provide data proving heat related issues do kill millions of people. I also did an honest search for cold related deaths, but could not find anything substantial.

Basically I showed there are more heat related deaths than cold related deaths. I did not say everyone gets killed by a 1 degree raise in temperature. I suspect that raise will generally have a negative effect on life expectancy, but I did not quantify. I did not even bring up this issue at all, you did.

Your graph does not provide evidence that Jim is waving, whoever he may be. It only shows the effect of improved diagnosis and healthcare over time.

If not me, what alarmist was calling Jim dead, who's Jim, and who told you a 1 degree rise would kill everyone?

[freebeard]

If not me, what alarmist was calling Jim dead, who's Jim, and who told you a 1 degree rise would kill everyone?

http://t.qkme.me/3r9vqq.jpg

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

You were saying cold related issues kill more people than heat related issues, implying global warming is a good thing.
You did not provide any data to back your claim.

Basically I showed there are more heat related deaths than cold related deaths. I did not say everyone gets killed by a 1 degree raise in temperature. I suspect that raise will generally have a negative effect on life expectancy, but I did not quantify. I did not even bring up this issue at all, you did.

Your graph does not provide evidence that Jim is waving, whoever he may be. It only shows the effect of improved diagnosis and healthcare over time.

If not me, what alarmist was calling Jim dead, who's Jim, and who told you a 1 degree rise would kill everyone?

I've already posted evidence before about cold killing more than heat. You can skew the figures any way you wish based on how you define cold and heat related death. If you consider freezing crop failure causing food prices to rise, and causing malnutrition related disease, that would be one abstract way to show that cold is worse than heat... that's the same level of abstraction it takes to go from heat > mosquitos > malaria > people bitten by malaria carrying mosquitos > people dying of malaria (heat).

If we're talking about direct causes of death, cold freezes people to death with more frequency than heat smothers them.

Really though, it's plainly obvious that humans thrive more in these temperatures compared to the temperatures that brought about ice ages. Not frozen is generally better for humans. The more not frozen the planet is, the better we do.

Originally Posted by freebeard

http://t.qkme.me/3r9vqq.jpg

I was only familiar with the phrase through Chrome, but guessed it had come from Star Trek.

[RedDevil]

It is either cold and heat related deaths or it isn't. I try to adapt to the terms you introduced, and now you tell me is skew them. Yeah. You brought that up, remember?

You say you already proved cold kills but don't link to it. Why not?
If you can really prove it you win this part of the argument.
I'm not convinced now. Not at all.

I know Star Trek but had not anticipated anyone using that to try to win an argument.

[freebeard]

redpoint5 — Not an Original Series guy then? How about AvE?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L94oKrD4SNk

Not a bad way to go...

[redpoint5]

It's more that it was before my time, and my parent's being of modest means only ever had broadcast TV. I grew up with TNG, so there's a special fondness for those characters. The Borg took the series to another level. I've since watched a few of the original, and I can accept arguments that it's the best.

Enjoyed the video, and it all sounds exactly right to me. I've experienced hypothermia before, floating some rapids as a swimmer while my friends had tubes. You shiver and it's miserable at first, then you stop shivering and lose your mind. I tried scaling a rock cliff rather than walk up the other side of the river to the road. Once on the road, I started home without taking the fins off my feet.

Death by cold has got to be at least 10,000x more pleasant than death by flame. BTW- When doctors ask what level of pain I'm at, I use the death by fire scale. I've never experienced more than about a level 3 pain when considering I could be set on fire. If I were a Dr. and a patient were able to communicate to me they are at pain level 10, I'd get out a hack saw and tell them they shouldn't feel a thing then.

-If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

[redpoint5]

I'm actually finding no graphs to support the notion that more people die of hyperthermia than hypothermia.





I'm not subscribed to a tribe, so I have no stake in the debate other than to seek understanding and truth. I appreciate being provoked, and reply in kind. Winning an argument has got nothing to do with it.

[RedDevil]

(partly removed)

1000 yearly deaths by hypothermia in the US are 1000 deaths too many. Nonetheless, this is peanuts compared to heat related deaths. I don't have the stats for the US, but during heat waves in the Netherlands (which means temperatures above 30 Celsius or . 86 Fahrenheit) the death toll increases by 40 to 100 per week.
Extrapolating that to the US population size and higher temperatures makes me wonder why your heat related numbers show up that low?
Maybe the number of homeless people skew the stats? Everyone can find shelter over here.

Of course, if we expand to cold or heat related the difference is even bigger. There aren't that many lethal cold related diseases, unlike heat related diseases.