The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

If you have a link to the study that predicts 50% crop failure, I'd like to see it. Sounds like a whataboutism to me.

Read the book I linked to. The author refers to current data. A large wheat crop failure in Russia is what started the Arab Spring - because the price of bread went up a lot, in some places.

That's Russia - if the US had a similar proportion failure - the world would be in chaos. Our factory farms are EXTREMELY fragile; and they are self destructing.

Soil erosion is a huge problem. We lose more topsoil than we produce in corn per acre.

Also, we are overpumping water. Aquifers are being depleted.

The main phosphorus mines for the world (in Africa, I think?) are being exhausted. We will have to go back to using our night soil.

We are losing pollinators. We are decimating insects. We are killing the life that builds the soil.

We will have massive food problems. It is only a matter of when ...

[Taylor95]

In one of my classes, I had the chance to visit the university's aquaponic system. It was very efficient, with the waste from fish essentially feeding the plants. If something like that was implemented on a large scale, there wouldn't be any food shortages. The system impressed me to the point that I want to build my own. An interesting sidenote is that an analysis of the products showed that they had higher levels of some nutrients than conventionally grown produce.

[Taylor95]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Global cooling was not the "panic" then - it wasn't even the scientific conclusion. We had a brief period of cooling, because of particulate pollution - and ironically, because of the EPA clamping down on pollution - we stopped the slight cooling.

Please be careful what you accept as fact - there is a FAKE cover of Time magazine, that lead people to think there was a conclusion that the earth was going to cool to the point of an ice age.

I've seen that cover. It would have been spread by the media at least a little bit--I remember some older people talking about media coverage of global cooling.

[redpoint5]

Advances in robotic labor will help drive efficiency in so-called sustainable crop production, as well as everything else that requires labor.

Rather than require half our population to grow food on micro-farms without pesticides and fertilizer, robots could be tending to the most labor intensive aspects of farming.

[aerohead]

from:'MELTDOWN',Eli Kintisch,SCIENCE,Volume 355,24 Feb,2017,pp788-91
*The Arctic is warming twice as fast as the rest of the planet.
*Some arctic summers have been warmer than others.
*During Arctic summer,the sun shines 24-hours/day.
*Weather is bringing soot and dust northwards to the Greenland ice sheet.
*Un-compacted darker snow is the first to melt away ,exposing darker underlying ice.
*Cryoconite algae is growing on the wet ice,darkening it,amplifying the melting to form pools of black sludge which absorb more solar radiation,increasing melt,in a feedback mechanism.
*Microbes are growing on the wet ice,darkening it to a brown color which absorbs more radiation,increasing the melt,for another feedback system.
*Snow and ice loss by melting can constitute 70% of losses,rather than berg calving.
*Supraglacial lake water is dark and absorbs more radiation.
*Meltwater runnoff erodes the ice further as is makes its way to the ocean.
*The melting quickly moves inland,with an ice loss as of 2017,of 269-Giga-tonnes/year.
*On July 12,2012,98% of Greenland's surface was liquid water.
*Warm subglacial water is attacking the ice sheet from below.
*Some meltwater makes it down Moulins,which lubricates the ice sheet/bedrock/sediment boundary.
*Surface mass gain due to snowfall is being overwhelmed by snow and ice melt,for a cumulative mass loss.
*As of 2017,Greenland was contributing 0.74mm/year (0.029-inches) to sea-level rise.
*The entire ice sheet constitutes 7-meters of sea-level rise,compared to 70-meters for Antarctica.
Data for the article was contributed by:
University of California,Irvine
University of Bristol,UK
University of Sheffield,UK
Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland
Columbia University

[aerohead]

I went to RAND Corporation on GOOGLE,then to a 2009 survey by the American Association for Public Opinion Research,on belief/disbelief on climate change/global warming.
The results varied,based on how you asked the question:
*60.2% of Republicans believe in climate change.
*44.0% of Republicans believe in global warming.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*86.4% of Democrats believe in climate change.
*86.9% of Democrats believe in global warming.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*69.5% of Independents believe in global warming
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*68.3% of 'Others' believe in global warming

[freebeard]

I was talking to someone at the bus stop today and quoted myself from 2012:

Originally Posted by myself in another thread

oil pan 4 -- I thought the ozone hole mended because *we did something*. Kind of like Y2K.

My money's on runaway greenhouse effect punctuated by an asteroid and new Ice Age. One or the other might not get us, but the whiplash will.

Remember this? Good times. The Lounge: It's all over but for the sweating?

Originally Posted by Batman Junior

We've let this thread go on for 100 pages? Whoops!

Fixed!

__________________

No whataboutisms - those are likely results of climate change.

'Whataboutism' is a technique not a set of facts:

Whataboutism
Whataboutism is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.More at Wikipedia
Tactic:Propaganda technique
Type:Tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy)
Logic:Logical fallacy

I'm not going to link to [DrRandomercam:Tu Quoque Quoque] because language, but you can find it on Youtube. He reduces Tu Quoque Quoque to "LOL No U, No U". Funny stuff in an MRA sort of way but not his most impressive guitar work.
__________________

Originally Posted by aerohead

The results varied,based on how you asked the question:

Polls don't count for much, but they can push results that further the narrative.
__________________

Originally Posted by Taylor95

I've seen that cover. It would have been spread by the media at least a little bit--I remember some older people talking about media coverage of global cooling.

Which cover? There are so many. I remember when [us] younger folks started talking about an oncoming Ice Age.

The profligate use of fossil fuels has staved off the Ice Age temporarily.

[redpoint5]

Ah, I didn't know whataboutism was a logical fallacy. I was more thinking it was a deluge of unsubstantiated claims.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Redpoint5

Ah, I didn't know whataboutism was a logical fallacy. I was more thinking it was a deluge of unsubstantiated claims.

Happy to help. I learnt it from https://www.youtube.com/user/DoctorRandomercam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7pwFxQqOxQ

[redpoint5]

Hey, I haven't heard some of that yet...

Peterson is saying the same thing I've been saying regarding population... that it's going to increase until perhaps the young people today are old, and then decrease, which will be a worse problem.

Similar outlook on global warming too.