Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Closed Thread  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-24-2019, 05:11 PM   #5111 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,718

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 53.47 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 28.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,494
Thanked 2,037 Times in 1,310 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
I'm sorry but again you are being misled. I have seen data on the BigBattery as was posted on another forum by someone who lives there and will share it here if I can find it again but I can tell you this from memory: A 100MW battery does not even make a visible dent in any situation of a 2GW grid. Even if it was ever used at a 1C discharge rate. Which we have never seen since some brief tests during commisioning. There was a brown out event when one of the thermal generators suddenly went offline due to extreme unmet demand and the BigBattery was seen to chip in 50 MW in brief spurts off and on for 2 hours. Mining the $2,000/ MWh peaks and really making only an intermittent 2.5% contribution. 50MW is hardly going to break the backs of any thermal supply in a 2GW grid that is only having problems with frequency support due to having prematurely shuttered too much of their previously reliable thermal generation in favor of unreliable wind.
Why don't you get your link first and then post. The facts are in the articles I linked to.

The Hornsdale battery is NOT meant to be the sole supplier of backup power for a substantial duration in case of a big power failure.
If you think I believe it is, I understand why you think I'm misled. But I repeat, that's not the main goal of the battery.
Rather, it is meant to stabilize the grid and limit energy cost fluctuations - and does that very effectively.

__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.16 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Most people are in the longest queue.

Last edited by RedDevil; 02-24-2019 at 05:29 PM..
 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-27-2019), NeilBlanchard (02-25-2019)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-24-2019, 05:21 PM   #5112 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 16,069
Thanks: 4,219
Thanked 5,415 Times in 4,310 Posts
That's a long one. I paused at

Quote:
Ramp It Up!

It is unrealistic to imagine that we could jump into a full-scale infrastructure replacement in one year.
Well then, it's good that the Democrats are giving us ten.

Quote:
Mining the $2,000/ MWh peaks and really making only an intermittent 2.5% contribution.
It isn't the size of the contribution so much as the immediacy. Imagine what Software Defined Electricity could do.
__________________
.

Who controls the memes
Controls the Universe

_________________
 
Old 02-24-2019, 08:25 PM   #5113 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,312 Times in 966 Posts
Some new regions were added to electricitymap.org.
.
Ontario is very clean.
.
https://www.electricitymap.org/?page...ntryCode=CA-ON
.
 
Old 02-24-2019, 09:52 PM   #5114 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,312 Times in 966 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
get your link
Not the specific day I was looking for but this shows the completely insignificant little brown blips at the bottom indicating the South Australia Big battery discharge. They are still unfortunately using up to 20% diesel and importing at high cost 10% at times from Victorian coal since they shuttered most of their own coal plants. Some of the most expensive electricity in the world. Fixed income residents can't afford their AC and industry is leaving.
.
ELJM: NEM SA1Regional Generation Summary
.
.

.
.
 
Old 02-25-2019, 01:55 AM   #5115 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,718

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 53.47 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 28.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,494
Thanked 2,037 Times in 1,310 Posts
Put the blame where it belongs.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...cartel-to-heel
Quote:
The Australian Energy Market Operator called – as it often does – for generators in South Australia to provide a modest amount of network services known as FCAS, or frequency control and ancillary services.
...
The big gas generators – even though they have 10 times more capacity than is required – have systematically rorted the situation, sometimes charging up to $7m a day for a service that normally comes at one-tenth of the price.
The gas cartel was driving up the cost of electricity and driving out the business.
The battery prevents that.

Apart from that kind of interventions the battery operates on the second and millisecond level. A day scale does not do it justice.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.16 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Most people are in the longest queue.

Last edited by RedDevil; 02-25-2019 at 03:14 AM..
 
The Following User Says Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-27-2019)
Old 02-25-2019, 03:52 AM   #5116 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,667

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 210
Thanked 2,862 Times in 2,238 Posts
Well just as I suspected that over priced battery isn't really doing anything besides providing false hope.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
 
Old 02-25-2019, 05:06 AM   #5117 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,718

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 53.47 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 28.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,494
Thanked 2,037 Times in 1,310 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Well just as I suspected that over priced battery isn't really doing anything besides providing false hope.
That $66 million battery that earned back $40 million in just one year?
The battery that brings down electricity costs?
You are incredible.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.16 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Most people are in the longest queue.
 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-27-2019), NeilBlanchard (02-25-2019)
Old 02-25-2019, 05:40 AM   #5118 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,667

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 210
Thanked 2,862 Times in 2,238 Posts
I doubt it brought down costs more than if they just took that 66 million dollars and built a 50Gw power plant.

A big grid battery isn't going to do anything to produce power to charge electric vehicles that are supposed to be replacing oil powered cars.

I already know I'm incredible, but thank you.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (03-02-2019)
Old 02-25-2019, 06:20 AM   #5119 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,718

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 53.47 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 28.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,494
Thanked 2,037 Times in 1,310 Posts
A big grid battery won't do the laundy either. It won't brush your teeth. It won't wipe your *.
It will just do what it was designed to do.

There's no such thing as a 50 GW power station.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...power_stations

A power plant would cost about $900 - $5,000 per kW to build, depending on the energy source. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/generatorcosts/
Those (2016) numbers are outdated though, Tesla's 100 MW battery would cost 176.3 million by their reckoning.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.16 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Most people are in the longest queue.

Last edited by RedDevil; 02-25-2019 at 06:34 AM..
 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-27-2019), NeilBlanchard (02-25-2019)
Old 02-25-2019, 06:55 AM   #5120 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,312 Times in 966 Posts
The input of the (Big) battery is so miniscule (35MW out of 2GW) that it could have no major impact on the pricing. See the tiny brown blips at the bottom of the chart to get an idea of the scale.
.

.
The articles that were linked make only suppositions to correlation of a price decrease since it's installation. Not Causation. I think what probably happened is that it did open the eyes of the gas plants that if they kept gouging, they would open the door for investors to cash in on the current predicament of too much % of unreliable intermittents by building 20 more batteries.
.
Correlation is not causation.
.

.

 
Closed Thread  Post New Thread


Tags
lies, opinion, reality, scam

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com