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Old 02-25-2019, 02:29 PM   #5121 (permalink)
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Let's hear it from Aurecon's managing director Paul Gleeson:
https://www.aurecongroup.com/thinkin...energy-storage
Quote:
HPR was ultimately designed to work as part of a system which reduces the likelihood of power failure in South Australia. HPR was intended to specifically combat issues and challenges relating to:

SA’s dependence on interconnection to Victoria (i.e. security challenges relating to the Heywood Interconnector)
Availability and pricing of system security services – supply and pricing for these was materially impacted by the retirement of synchronous thermal generation in 2016
SA’s rapid transition to a greater reliance on variable renewable energy, including rooftop solar (SA has one of the world’s highest penetrations of renewable energy generation – 48.9% in 2016/17, up from less than 1% in early 2000s and predicted to rise to 73% in 2020/21).
(etc., etc)
Quote:
Conclusion
The Future Energy system needs system stability and security to be provided by a new asset type, as we transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy... HPR provides this vital service every day, for milliseconds and seconds at a time – which means significantly improved system stability and significantly reduced risk of a System Black event.

Most Australians are in favour of renewable energy, we also know they don’t want to pay more for their electricity and we know they want their lights to stay on. Wind and solar are the lowest cost form of new build energy source, however the impact of their increasing share of generation in the market are on system strength and stability.

Projects like HPR are truly transformational as they enable us to integrate increasing amounts of wind and solar as existing coal and gas generation comes to the end of its operating life. HPR is an integral part of achieving that goal – giving consumers what they want, through supporting a secure network and providing stable, affordable and reliable generation.

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Old 02-25-2019, 03:23 PM   #5122 (permalink)
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Sounds like a catastrophic waste of money.
If they want to spend tons of money on something that doesn't generate any electricity then I would rather them do it and fail so we don't waste time and money failing it here.
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:31 PM   #5123 (permalink)
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You don't get the concept. That's okay, the energy trade market will do the right thing anyway.
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:38 PM   #5124 (permalink)
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Yes. The higher prices to the consumer will pay for it.
 
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:41 PM   #5125 (permalink)
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Un-be-lievable!

Why don't you read anything about that battery? Then you'd understand how it drives down costs, not up.

I guess one can lead a horse to water...
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:59 PM   #5126 (permalink)
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I read everything you posted and there is some information (intentionally?) missing. The chart showing the wholesale pricing going down 20 minutes after the battery started to contribute 35 MW indicates to me that SA must have several small interconnected grids that bill to a small area independently and they are showing the price change for this small area. This is the only explanation as to how injecting such a small amount of power could have any effect at all. There is no way that a 35MW addition can have ANY meaningful influence on a 2 GW load. But, if the gas companies have quit gouging for their stabilization services during shortages because they don't want to leave the door open for more battery installations that may eventually reach a level that does add up to something substantial, then it has made a good accomplishment.

Last edited by sendler; 02-25-2019 at 04:18 PM..
 
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:06 PM   #5127 (permalink)
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Quote:
You are incredible.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post591932
Quote:
I already know I'm incredible, but thank you.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post591933

[For a moment there I thought I was in the wrong thread.] Now that's more like it.

I woke up to no power and all I can see out that one window is tree branches and snow.

Why build more power plants, when you could retrofit the grid for Software Defined Electricity.

Quote:
3DFS Software-Defined Electricity
Software-Defined Electricity leverages the power of efficient supercomputing to clean, balance and control electricity in real time, reducing energy consumption, saving money, decreasing carbon footprints while increasing electrical efficiency.
https://3dfs.com
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:35 PM   #5128 (permalink)
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It might scare the utilities into not gouging as much out of fear more batteries may be installed. That's about it.
As long as US tax payer money doesn't fund it when they try to build it here I don't care.
If some private firm wants to front the bills for it then be my guest.
I would rather see solar panels installed, at least those make actual power for at least a few hours a day.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:16 PM   #5129 (permalink)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

Quote:
In electrical engineering, the power factor of an AC electrical power system is defined as the ratio of the real power absorbed by the load to the apparent power flowing in the circuit, and is a dimensionless number in the closed interval of −1 to 1. A power factor of less than one indicates the voltage and current are not in phase, reducing the instantaneous product of the two. Real power is the instantaneous product of voltage and current and represents the capacity of the electricity for performing work. Apparent power is the average product of current and voltage. Due to energy stored in the load and returned to the source, or due to a non-linear load that distorts the wave shape of the current drawn from the source, the apparent power may be greater than the real power. A negative power factor occurs when the device (which is normally the load) generates power, which then flows back towards the source.

In an electric power system, a load with a low power factor draws more current than a load with a high power factor for the same amount of useful power transferred. The higher currents increase the energy lost in the distribution system, and require larger wires and other equipment. Because of the costs of larger equipment and wasted energy, electrical utilities will usually charge a higher cost to industrial or commercial customers where there is a low power factor.

Power-factor correction increases the power factor of a load, improving efficiency for the distribution system to which it is attached. Linear loads with low power factor (such as induction motors) can be corrected with a passive network of capacitors or inductors. Non-linear loads, such as rectifiers, distort the current drawn from the system. In such cases, active or passive power factor correction may be used to counteract the distortion and raise the power factor. The devices for correction of the power factor may be at a central substation, spread out over a distribution system, or built into power-consuming equipment.
Phase Shifting FTW
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:43 PM   #5130 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
I read everything you posted and there is some information (intentionally?) missing. The chart showing the wholesale pricing going down 20 minutes after the battery started to contribute 35 MW indicates to me that SA must have several small interconnected grids that bill to a small area independently and they are showing the price change for this small area. This is the only explanation as to how injecting such a small amount of power could have any effect at all. There is no way that a 35MW addition can have ANY meaningful influence on a 2 GW load. But, if the gas companies have quit gouging for their stabilization services during shortages because they don't want to leave the door open for more battery installations that may eventually reach a level that does add up to something substantial, then it has made a good accomplishment.
Total load is not relevant for what the battery does. The way the load varies is.

The bidding for services like the battery and the gas generators provide is fully automatic and varies much like the stock market does, sometimes seemingly completely detached from actual requirements. Until someone tries to rig the system, like the gas generators did. It has nothing to do with your small independently billed grids (where does that come from ?)

Traditional power plants have resistor banks to burn off excess electricity, as they had to produce a slight overage to prevent running short when demand suddenly increases faster than the can respond to, like in case of a plant failure somewhere else.
The Hornsdale battery reduces the need for that as it can absorb the excess power and deliver it back when needed. It already has prevented several brownouts that would have occurred without its intervention.

Then there is power quality control (voltage, frequency, sine shape) where the Hornsdale battery excels in, as it has full control over its output, down to a fraction of a millisecond.

Costs has gone down since it is operational, stability and quality have gone up. What's not to like?

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"In hindsight, I should have bet more on that horse"
 
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