The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I'm on a bike instead of running, but I can curl my lower lip into my mouth and the lip goatee and mustache make a double air filter. More for dust than flies, though.

edit: via S0:
Institute For Basic Science>News>Icebergs delay Southern Hemisphere future warming

Ice-cores from around the globe have demonstrated that low-latitude,inland,interior land areas,especially at high elevations are the most sensitive to global warming,and are where deglaciation and interstadial events began over the last 420,000 years.
The warming always precedes the ice-sheet and glacier retreats and iceberg calving events,and melting.
The ice loss is a consequence of the warming,not the other way around.
The 'operative' language of the paper would be the limited scope of 'Southern.'
There may be local,regional heat distribution effects,however,globally,we'll continue to warm.It's impossible for it not to be.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Darn that puts me at less than 4,000 feet above sea lever, better start looking for higher ground.

You guys may see Hantavirus,Lyme disease,spotted fever,tree death due to invasive beetles,encephalytus,higher risk of fires...............
Snow levels are climbing.Increased latent heat will mean more humidity,with less nighttime cooling.Higher daytime warming.The mountains are actually the first to show the effects of warming.They've warmed up to 22-degrees higher than mean average before.Less at sea-level.They follow El Nino and La Nina cycles.
All of man's remarkable development has occurred in the Holocene epoch.That's over.We now live in the 'Anthropocene',something Earth has never seen.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Economics is the motivation for nearly all decisions, conscious and subconscious. I pursued the most attractive and temperamentally agreeable woman I could because of "greed". The economics is presumably that her traits are advantageous. None of that was really conscious to me; as I'm merely attracted to what I'm attracted to, and we're motivated to act toward things that are in our interest.

So it's not surprising that economics is the motivating factor behind most anything. It's a much better reason for action than other motivators, such as racism.



War exists in single-celled organisms and transcends every living system. Native Americans had tribal war even though their society least resembled capitalism.

Capitalism is a tool; it's neither good nor evil. It can be used for great good or it can be used for great evil. It just so happens to be a better tool than the alternatives for spreading liberty and prosperity to all despite the unequal distribution of wealth.

Whoever is credited with that phrase is supremely ignorant to the human condition, because capitalism isn't responsible for human greed and propensity for malevolence, it's actually a feature of humanity that then uses tools like capitalism in abusive ways. Eliminate capitalism and you haven't removed even the tiniest portion of the problem, only that particular instrument to inflict abuse.

There are existing cultures today,in which no daily experience brushes up against economics.We want to be precise in our use of language.
If you want to use 'economics' as a metaphor for belief/attitude,need,strategy,action,reward there wouldn't really need to be anything else said.
I gave you the names of the individuals for every quote.If you want to investigate their backgrounds,you've got an open door.
A potential downside to capitalism would be a multi-trillion dollar industry which can purchase a government,and have it do it's bidding.
Capitalism happens to be the economic system in the USA. Those inclined towards abuse use capitalism to have their way.
The selected quotes,to anyone with a shred of perspicacity, might connect the dots to reveal that,I'm not,and have not been alone, in my limited enthusiasm towards the institution of joint-stock corporations.I have an adversity towards gambling casinos and speculators,a vestigial holdover from my Christian upbringing.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by sendler

Humans and our livestock now outweigh wild land vertebrates 50:1.
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Access to super cheap, super dense, carbon energy for the last 70 years has caused a "Great Acceleration" in human development and allowed us to increase the scale and complexity of the current civilization far beyond the normal carrying capacity of the Earth. We are taking more than our share and are several decades into biological overshoot.
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A Laissez Faire free market cannot address this since there are no input signals to represent how much value a low entropy nonrenewable resource like Phosphorous or crude oil would have to someone in the future who no longer has enough to survive.
And
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Labor has no leverage ( it never really did) to demand a fair share of the social surplus it creates due to overpopulation, globalization, and automation. The owners of production are in the position to also take much more than their share and let the workers "eat cake" if they don't have enough food.

I would argue that a free market would have the proper signals if all consumers knew what was going on.Personally,even though I spent 16-years in school I never received an education.
No surprise though if,the business of America is business.That would mean that the strategy for the nation would be to make mushrooms of the population:keep 'em in the dark,and feed 'em ---t.On that account then,we have a great success.
Parents are free to limit their family size,educate their children,stay away from credit as Jesus mandated,practice thrift,and never be in a position where principles must be surrendered for the sake of putting bread on the table.
I eat all the cake I want because I don't have a mortgage, car payment,credit card debt,and borrow money at usury,to obey television's mandate to 'shop.'
The system's available to everyone that can operate a pencil,piece of paper,and a two-dollar pocket calculator.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Do you know how to tell if a politician is lying? See if their lips are moving.

PS. Those "news" people are trying desperately to match the number of lies. Faith in the news media is misplaced. Political extremists on both sides at best take things out of context and attribute false motive to people, and at worst outright lie and sensationalize. Which news person said that Trump is calling for the extermination of latinos?

Anyhow, I thought I'd point out that the difference between you and aerohead is that you're disagreeable and make no attempt at having a reasonable discussion, while aerohead disagrees without being (overtly) disagreeable and attempts at a dialogue. Ad-hominems and guilt by association tactics don't convey goodwill or anything of substantive value.

James Hansen witnessed so much miscommunication in the press,that he adopted a policy of providing written testimony to any and all,whenever he appeared at hearings. He didn't want any opportunity for misinterpretation,which could end up in the mass media.
Some of his testimony was 'modified' by Presidential appointees friendly with the fossil-fuels industry.Hansen would have to reappear to the same committee,to disavow his own',doctored' testimony.No wonder the public is so confused.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by litesong

redpoint makes all the racist, sexist, xenophobic, bought-by-putin re-pubic-lick-un "don'T rump" support points. Its to side-step(yes, redpoint doesn't mention Charlottesville) the knowledge that "don'T rump" admits continuously that he has withdrawn from humanity. Raised by a KKK-supporter father (maybe a white-hatter), "don'T rump" learned well at his daddy's feet.

Redpoint5's a big boy,and he can come to his in defense,but I'd like the say that

there's a lot of reasons for people believing and saying what they do,and I for one,have noticed a willingness on the part of redpoint5 to participate in reasonable,measured conversations,and it motivates me to search myself and know why I think the things I do,and attempt to vet the information I contribute.
We're all distant relations.There may come a time when we need to all work together towards a common goal.Like the Iroquois Confederacy', sheath of arrows on our national symbols.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

No I wont.
The people who live below sea level will be effected most.
I took the high ground, have a well and growing my own food and fuel.

Actually,the science says that you'll be impacted before many others are.It all starts at the higher elevations.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Actually,the science says that you'll be impacted before many others are.It all starts at the higher elevations.

All the science that's been wrong so far?
Ha.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

All the science that's been wrong so far?
Ha.

In one example,53 ice cores from five continents were compared and all found to reveal the same data,from Arctic,to Antarctic,and many points in between.
Sea sediment,coral,stalagtite,tree ring,time series jived as well.
They have data reaching back through 4-ice ages.420,000 years.
The numerical simulations have been very accurate in predictions.Dead nuts on.
There's evidence of really abrupt warmings.Carbon dioxide was always involved.
You may slide by,as the energy distribution is seemingly random.But the mountain glaciologists have directly measured the radical warming associated with continental interior higher elevation elevated warming.
It's pretty disconcerting.
It would be very ironic to do the EV, photovoltaics,and biomass heating as you are,only to be hammered first in line.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by aerohead

In his book(s),'How Not To Die',Dr. Michael Gregor fingered salt,sugar,high-fructose corn sugar,fat,processed foods,(the standard American diet) as the gateway to high blood pressure,clogged arteries,morbid obesity,type-2 diabetes,heart attack,and stroke.

...I've got a neighbor that tried the KETO diet,and is gonna try vegan/vegetarian.

This comment is for the broader audience, but there's nothing that distinguishes high fructose corn sugar from other simple sugars, such as cane sugar from a health standpoint. The reason it's unhealthy is because of excessive consumption, not because it's a particularly "bad" type of sugar.

If KETO is the one where you eat only lipids, then my friend tried that one, and after an initial terrible period of being lethargic, adapted to the diet. It allowed him to miss meals without feeling drained, and generally helped stabilize energy levels while developing a leaner physique without exercise.

Originally Posted by aerohead

There are existing cultures today,in which no daily experience brushes up against economics.We want to be precise in our use of language. If you want to use 'economics' as a metaphor for belief/attitude,need,strategy,action,reward there wouldn't really need to be anything else said.

Perhaps my usage is broad, but there is a system of "economics" in any culture, meaning a method of balancing what you desire with the desires of everyone else.

Most simple cultures aren't simple because they have chosen it, but because they haven't had opportunity to consume more. There are exceptions such as the Amish, but primitive tribes are moving towards modernization.

The Gods Must Be Crazy is a satire about how greed is intrinsic to the human soul, and it's often lack of opportunity that prevents those malevolent behaviors from springing up.