The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I never took any kind of art class beyond elementary school on account of it being retarded.
My time at Langley with my nasa friends confirmed it. They all said man made climate change is BS and were doing it for the funding to save their jobs/retirement.
That's all I needed to know.
In college if I would have submitted a project where I observed a single system for a little while, did nothing else then drew wild conclusions based on nothing else, didn't show anything about how those conclusions were reached I would have failed.
For example if I made a computer model and showed the result that is to be expected then didn't allow the instructor to see the program, instant fail. That means my computer model is BS and only makes a predetermined result.
Or I stole some one else's work.
It would seem mad driven climate change science is the only field where this extremely sketchy brand of science is allowed.
Only in a cult like environment does this pass the sniff test.

I apologize for any misunderstanding.I thought you had a couple years college and an Associate Arts degree,with course work for your time at the power plant.
Too bad your friends were just *****s.And ignoramuses.Had you looked beyond prostitutes you might have discovered scientists willing to forego their own salary and live in squalor in order to complete their research.
26-year-old,climatologist,Shawn Wight,died November 26,1997,from complications during ice-coring drilling on the Dauopa Ice Cap,Himalayan Tibetan Plateau,China.They had been drilling at 23,000-feet.
I don't know if S.Fred Singer ever put up with 33-days at minus 20-F for the Koch Brothers.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Of course Nazi distorted the Nietzsche philosophy, but they would have said they expanded it. They were motivated by "good" just like everyone else. That's exactly the problem when god is dead and we're "Beyond Good and Evil". Eliminating the weak was defined as "good" by the Nazis. In their view, strength and weakness mostly had to do with physical prowess, though mental capability was still valued somewhat below that. I don't exactly know how jews made the "weak" list. I'm not an expert in history or philosophy... something I need to study more.

Nietzsche absolutely drew on Darwinian theory to formulate his philosophy; which was roughly the advancement of the fit, and the elimination of the unfit. While he wouldn't have called for the murder of weaker people, he had a low opinion of them and would rather not see them procreate into the future.

Nietzsche didn't place a lot of value on reason, rather he placed value on those things that advance the desires of the individual, regardless of the "truth" of it. If there is no right and wrong, then what is good is merely the thing that fulfills desire.



We've never seen laissez faire because it's never been tried... but I'm not a Libertarian anyhow, so I think certain regulations are necessary.

There's a difference between capitalism and crony capitalism. We've got a serious problem with politics being a career field, people pledging allegiance ans surrendering their mind to 1 of 2 political tribes, and both parties both exhibiting the same corrupt tendencies to cater to special interests and boost the reach of the federal government, and especially the executive branch. That's a failure of the people, not of capitalism.

Here's US GDP per capita, and it shows a strong upward trend, so I don't know what loss you're referring to.



Here's world GDP per capita. Notice that hockey stick.



Capitalism is the worst and most inefficient system of allocating talent and resources, except for all the other systems tried. I've yet to hear a proposal for a different system that would be more efficient.



Did you obtain those credentials yourself? I respect your arguments regardless of your academic certifications. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. While a person holding a certain title may be more likely to have correct understanding of things, it isn't necessarily so.

The chart is bogus.They're all bogus.That's the problem.There isn't a full accounting for capitalism's global footprint.And until there is,there's no purpose in presenting these fictions.It's like Worldcom.It might as well have just been pulled out of someones behind.

[redpoint5]

Sure, GDP has a lot to be desired, but what other measure of well-being do you want to represent. Those all go up in line with these GDP charts, like the correlation between CO2 and temperature.

I'm way better off than I'd have been in the 70's. There was no internet then, and everything cost more.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Sure, GDP has a lot to be desired, but what other measure of well-being do you want to represent. Those all go up in line with these GDP charts, like the correlation between CO2 and temperature.

I'm way better off than I'd have been in the 70's. There was no internet then, and everything cost more.

GDP is a reflection of a abstract construct bounded by the parameters of its model.It's not reality.Reality lies outside the mind of the economist.
Your well-being may be a source of misery, suffering,even death for those outside the bounds of the model.
Anthropologists may argue that a hunter-gatherer in Africa today,has more well-being than you.They don't live outside a natural economy.Or a pygmy in the Congo.They can build a home in 3-hours from indigenous material,require no knowledge of a mortgage lender,credit scores;they don't worry about unemployment,repossession,bankruptcy,interest rates,recessions,depressions,stagflation,downturns ,boycotts,tariffs,union strikes,wars.
I'd have to check,but I believe that pre-October 1973,all Americans were better off than today.I'll know more over the coming two weeks.

[freebeard]

My sources suggest a curiousity. Hurricane Dorian and it's storm surge passed directly over Epstein Island and then parked itself one nautical mile from a Chinese/Denmark[ian?] port that is allegedly a conduit for drugs and human trafficking. And will then head Northeast and spare Mar-A-Lago.

Which might suggest the Anthropogenic Climate Change may be more granular than suspected.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by freebeard

My sources suggest a curiousity. Hurricane Dorian and it's storm surge passed directly over Epstein Island and then parked itself one nautical mile from a Chinese/Denmark[ian?] port that is allegedly a conduit for drugs and human trafficking. And will then head Northeast and spare Mar-A-Lago.

Which might suggest the Anthropogenic Climate Change may be more granular than suspected.

The head of the storm prediction center told Judy Woodruff last night that these stationary storms,while rare,are not new.I wouldn't read in conspiratorial meaning into it.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by aerohead

GDP is a reflection of a abstract construct bounded by the parameters of its model.It's not reality.Reality lies outside the mind of the economist.
Your well-being may be a source of misery, suffering,even death for those outside the bounds of the model.
Anthropologists may argue that a hunter-gatherer in Africa today,has more well-being than you.They don't live outside a natural economy.Or a pygmy in the Congo.They can build a home in 3-hours from indigenous material,require no knowledge of a mortgage lender,credit scores;they don't worry about unemployment,repossession,bankruptcy,interest rates,recessions,depressions,stagflation,downturns ,boycotts,tariffs,union strikes,wars.
I'd have to check,but I believe that pre-October 1973,all Americans were better off than today.I'll know more over the coming two weeks.

All science disciplines are a reduction of reality into simpler models of the parts of reality that matter to us. A map wouldn't be useful if it were an exact recreation of the terrain it represents, but instead is useful because it simplifies the infinitely complex into something manageable and useful to our infinitely limited minds. Economics are as much a model of economic reality as climate science is a model of climate reality.

Indigenous tribal living is disappearing, not because colonialism is forcing it upon tribes, but because human nature is such that it's not content to have less when examples of others having more are available. I'm perfectly willing to accept that cavemen could have been happier than me, but given the opportunity they would have traded their caves for my standard of living and would no longer be content having had their eyes opened to this way of life.

Plenty of people lived in the 70's, so we don't need to check any fact to see if they are better off today or not. Just ask yourself if you'd rather be whisked away from the standard of living we enjoy today and trade it for that of the 70's. No more internet, no more fuel injection, no more Amazon... you name it, and basically everything we enjoy doesn't exist.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

All science disciplines are a reduction of reality into simpler models of the parts of reality that matter to us. A map wouldn't be useful if it were an exact recreation of the terrain it represents, but instead is useful because it simplifies the infinitely complex into something manageable and useful to our infinitely limited minds. Economics are as much a model of economic reality as climate science is a model of climate reality.

Indigenous tribal living is disappearing, not because colonialism is forcing it upon tribes, but because human nature is such that it's not content to have less when examples of others having more are available. I'm perfectly willing to accept that cavemen could have been happier than me, but given the opportunity they would have traded their caves for my standard of living and would no longer be content having had their eyes opened to this way of life.

Plenty of people lived in the 70's, so we don't need to check any fact to see if they are better off today or not. Just ask yourself if you'd rather be whisked away from the standard of living we enjoy today and trade it for that of the 70's. No more internet, no more fuel injection, no more Amazon... you name it, and basically everything we enjoy doesn't exist.

It's the parts of reality incorporated into the models,while neglecting the parts that are exclusive to the model which threatens us.They may 'sometimes' reflect a vignette of the economy,however never reflect the entirety.A structural impossibility.
We can't do a caveman experiment.I know people who've left 'modern' America and went back to nature (if you will) with no regrets).The internet and a homogenized global Orange County California world wasn't enough to keep them in an urban environment.
I can only make subjective comments about the 70s.Illicit drinking was fun.The sex was great.Some motorcycle racing.Surfing.Built some cars,motorcycles.Went from high school to combat.Waited out the rest of my tour of duty.Worked concrete for a year,then onto a ranch/farm,and oil fields,then into college for four years on the G.I.Bill.A busy decade.
I'm not the same person I was in the 70s,so in a way,I'm not qualified to quantify the experience.
If there were any bankruptcies,I was unaware.For a dollar I could by two cheeseburgers,fries,and a milkshake.You could snag a running car for $80.Car loans were 18-months.Levi's were $5.00 at the surplus store.Track shoes were a dollar.Gas was $0.25/gallon.It never varied until 1973.I have many fond memories of those times.

[redpoint5]

The thought experiment isn't to think back to how you felt in the past, it's to imagine your current self in the past. The past is often fondly remembered due to youthful adventure; something which is ongoing with current youth.

No doubt there are people that have found more joy transitioning to a more primitive lifestyle, but that isn't the norm. Those aboriginals living in the jungles are coming out and adopting modern amenities. Running around naked exposed to the elements and dying at 30 doesn't appeal to them once they see there is an alternative.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The thought experiment isn't to think back to how you felt in the past, it's to imagine your current self in the past. The past is often fondly remembered due to youthful adventure; something which is ongoing with current youth.

No doubt there are people that have found more joy transitioning to a more primitive lifestyle, but that isn't the norm. Those aboriginals living in the jungles are coming out and adopting modern amenities. Running around naked exposed to the elements and dying at 30 doesn't appeal to them once they see there is an alternative.

I'm probably over-thinking it.If I took my current memories back with me,I suppose I'd lose my mind.
Southern California is all I have to relate to.It was pretty easy living.Money went further.Real income was greater.I remember a majority of single-earner families.Wives and mothers didn't need to work.I believe that my schooling was better than it is now.Many of my friends became millionaires.
I don't know what indigenous peoples would think about unemployment,repossession,bankruptcy,foreclosure,d rug abuse,alcoholism,homelessness,home assault,drive-by shootings,gang warfare,assassinations,robbery,embezzlement,murder ,rape,child abuse,suicide,war for resources.People are dying to get here,while 36,000 Americans take their own lives a year.
I still prefer books to the internet.It's a tough experiment.