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Old 09-13-2019, 05:03 AM   #6861 (permalink)
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There's always things to get depressed about. When I was young we did not wonder if there would be a nuclear war, but rather when. The No Future generation.
Compared to that climate change is less harsh - at least there's something we can do about it.

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Old 09-13-2019, 10:39 AM   #6862 (permalink)
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Thanks G... (OOPS, I'm a atheist) the generations change. If human being was imortal we would be in serious problems, since people in general do not evolve as individuals.

But I wonder if most kids are nice as your kids...

People can blame left wing for many things, but they have some important aspects to teach kids, despite many crazy things (remambering I'm not left or right wing). Things like:

-Conscience about the planet and that we do not own the world but we share it with other species and with the future generations.
-Consicence about justice, against prejudice (I know radical leftwing can have their prejudices against who thinks different from them).
-Understand that it's more important for feel safe and things to work fine ratter than ostentation.
-Respect individuals and theire differences and understand that we can't tolerate unjeustice against people.

The problem is that many left wings are radical, hypocrit and just use such things to turn people into political tools, and ignore that comunist symbols they like didn't respect it, like many comunist dictators from history or actual times.

I hope the new generation get strong enough to realise their parents were "rapped" by the media sexual manipulation & erotization. So they could avoid be sexual puppets from consumism.

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I have first hand experience with the next generation - my kids.
They don't care for big things like cars. They really don't care for things period.
They do care for utility - mainly the utility that comes with smartphones and tablets. My daughter was saving for a tablet and fully willing to work for it if need be - no matter how long or hard. After a while my son also got on the band wagon except for the work thing. We bought them a couple of good tablets, half paid with their own savings. They are happy with no regrets whatsoever.

They do care about the environment. I sometimes ask them whether that's because somebody (a.k.a. school) told them to but they insist that they want that themselves, regardless what other people say or do. And if they accidentally leave the tap running or a light on they feel bad about it when they realize it... and I realize how different it was when I was young. Sure I did not (usually) let the tap run unnecessary, but the concern then was money wasted.
My kids don't care about money (except as a means to buy them utilities), but if something is bad for the environment that moves them.
I drive relatively slow to save gas, they never complain. If once in a while I do get up to speed with the faster traffic then they'll comment. They really want to do good, for whatever reason.

And they do have reasons; if the sea level is a meter higher at the end of the century they will probably be around to endure that. The last time the average global temperature was 2 to 3 degrees above 1900 level the sea level was 14 to 16 meters higher than now.
It won't get that high in one century, but even a meter or 2 would flood all current sea ports and many of our metropoles and farmland. Many of the current rich farmlands are in the river deltas at sea level. If the sea rises all of those river deltas flood over; it will take thousands of years before new deltas form at the new level, and it won't happen at all until the rise stops.

Luckily the next generation does not care at all for big things that go broom broom. But we still do, so they will face the consequences of our decisions.
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:37 PM   #6863 (permalink)
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This article Resilience.org posted today is worth a close study including all of the linked references. This is one to print onto paper and go through with a highlighter. The summary is the same. Degrowth of the world economy is required to avoid catastrophic collapse.
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https://www.resilience.org/stories/2...he-reason-why/
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:28 PM   #6864 (permalink)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephemeralization
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Ephemeralization, a term coined by R. Buckminster Fuller, is the ability of technological advancement to do "more and more with less and less until eventually you can do everything with nothing," that is, an accelerating increase in the efficiency of achieving the same or more output (products, services, information, etc.) while requiring less input (effort, time, resources, etc.). Fuller's vision was that ephemeralization will result in ever-increasing standards of living for an ever-growing population despite finite resources. The concept has been embraced by those who argue against Malthusian philosophy.
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Old 09-13-2019, 03:34 PM   #6865 (permalink)
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Reminds me of Specialization or Reductionism where someone learns more and more about less and less until pretty soon they know everything there is to know about nothing. We need more people with a sound systems view to guide us.
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Old 09-13-2019, 05:08 PM   #6866 (permalink)
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In "The Wellspring of Reality," the introductory essay to his seminal 1975 volume Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking (public library), Fuller decries specialization as the enemy of synergy and proposes a reframing of culture that could "get all of humanity to educate itself swiftly enough to generate spontaneous social behaviors that will avoid extinction." At its epicenter he places the value of wide curiosity and generalist knowledge.
http://www.brainpickings.org/2013/03...r-synergetics/
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:03 PM   #6867 (permalink)
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Lots wrong with the article, but the general assumption is correct, that a rate of increase is not sustainable, and that includes technological advancement to solve our problems.

Quote:
I would argue that the way we take conventional “all-purpose” money for granted is the main reason why we have not understood how advanced technologies are dependent on the appropriation of labour and resources from elsewhere. In making it possible to exchange almost anything – human time, gadgets, ecosystems, whatever – for anything else on the market, people are constantly looking for the best deals, which ultimately means promoting the lowest wages and the cheapest resources in the global South.
Of course we understand that advanced technologies rely on resources. The fact that we allocate resources using a medium of exchange changes nothing except convenience. It sounds like he thinks the baker is supposed to be bartering 100,000 loafs of bread with the "house maker". It's not money precisely that allows advanced technologies, its specialization brought about by abundance of material goods and free time.

"Since the 19th century, all-purpose money has obscured the unequal resource flows of colonialism by making them seem reciprocal: money has served as a veil that mystifies exploitation by representing it as fair exchange."

Money has been around way longer than the 19th century, so obviously isn't to blame for "unequal resource flows and exploitation". In nature there is no money, and animals still receive unequal resources because life's not fair. It doesn't take the invention of money for self-interest to cause problems. Every technology is susceptible to be used for good for for bad.

The author thinks buying local groceries is going to solve our problems, but doesn't show his work at all. There's no chance that a fleet of pickup trucks roaming the fields and streets delivering "local" goods is more energy efficient than enormous machines harvesting and transporting food, even halfway around the globe. Just about the only way some small and local operation is more efficient is if it's in your own back yard, and you used sweat to do the work... which brings us back to the 18th century when 95% of people were subsistence farmers.

The meaning of life isn't to merely extend the number of years humans hang around; it's to explore and push the limits. If barely eating enough to get through the years until our eventual early death is what life is about, then we're no better than any other animal, and if anyone thinks we're no better than any other animal, they are profoundly confused.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:30 PM   #6868 (permalink)
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Reminds me of Specialization or Reductionism where someone learns more and more about less and less until pretty soon they know everything there is to know about nothing. We need more people with a sound systems view to guide us.
I struggle to find my place because I lack the focus to specialize in anything. Tangent interests always pop up when studying something that lead me well astray of intensely learning the minute details of something. Because of this, I'm a generalist, and there's not much use for general knowledge because there's tons of people that can do specific things much better than I.
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:10 PM   #6869 (permalink)
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security,.....................

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
No security force has ever bailed me out, except perhaps for holding other nations and enemies of the state at bay. I sleep soundly because there is a sphere of protection and dedication to act against evil around me. That, and most people are not malevolent most of the time. If the police announced a walkout tomorrow, I'd be just fine, as well as any neighbor within my observation.

The real trick is knowing if you've been bitten by a rattlesnake, or pricked by a thorne. They have different levels of urgency.

Just because there has been loss of life does not mean a new code or requirements are necessary. Ladder falls are among the most deadly things we face, yet we don't place a ban on ladders. Their utility outweighs the loss we suffer, not to diminish the tragedy of those who have lost loved ones.

The salient fact of Turing isn't that he was gay, but his many accomplishments, just as the fact that I'm straight has nothing to do with anything except for the gender I find attractive.

My Japanese-American ancestry likewise is not of any interest with regard to my accomplishments (or failings). I consider myself Native (US) American culturally. The group I most closely identify with is the collection of cells comprising my body; that is to say myself, being the smallest minority group there is; an individual.
The security issue would be germane to the top 20% of the income spectrum,of which Adam Smith averred to.I don't know if you and your's would be subject to assault,murder,kiddnapping,ransom,etc. simply because of your position in the food chain.This is a very real concern for the wealthy.
My comment about safety was in the specific context of building codes.Everyone we encountered was predicated on loss of life.If for no other reason than to protect insurance company shareholder profits.
The comment about Turing is,that in my Republican household upbringing,I was exposed to racism,bigotry,anti-semitism,homophobia,etc.,and everyone except W.A.S.P.s were held in contempt just for being on the planet.Physical violence against these groups was a topic for casual conversation.
The point is,the irony,that, it is exactly these marginalized persons who made terrific contributions to mankind,whereas many of my own family,who hated all these people,made very little,if any difference,in bettering the world,even though quite a few fed pretty high on the food chain,sucking off the military industrial complex.
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:16 PM   #6870 (permalink)
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I used Netscape before IE was a thing. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for Microsoft's antitrust lawsuit if I recall correctly. Microsoft's claim was that IE was an integral part of their Windows OS, and the claim by Netscape and the government was that Microsoft was engaged in monopolistic practices by offering the browser for "free", and not providing a provision to remove it.

Netscape lives on as Firefox, a browser which I used early on until finally switching to Chrome (again, I hear the cringes from freebeard).

What does freebeard use, Torbrowser?

As an aside, I listened to a podcast that said if you choose to use a browser other than the default, you're more likely an independent thinker.
The whole point of the comment,was that the technology was borne out of socialism,not free-market capitalism.
The laissez-faire folks love to slam Big-Government and socialism,when every day they are a direct beneficiary of it.

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