Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-01-2010, 11:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Coould this be a viable option?

Ok I'm not sure if this is possible or not but is it possible to make a regualr suzuki swift or Geo Metro 1.0L into and XFI? I can get a metro for cheep in the spring gas is inching closer too high again and I would not mind a car that gets better economy. I know that i will need an manual car and I will have to delete allot but I'd be happy with a car like that knowing that I don't need to fill up every 480km. Once the motor is done I'd more then likely get a set of Moon Rims. I've been think of this as finding an XFI in Ontario is next to impossible so rather than look for an XFI and Get lucky. I figured why ot turn a normal Metro into one. EV is not an option as I drive a heck of allot so I need something that can get me from point A to B and be cheep about it.

Any help is appreciated.

__________________
2 cars one never gets driven the other is an MPG project already at 5% increase in standard driving economy CAI and Pulstar plus. Thinking weight reduction next year.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-02-2010, 09:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,179

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,477
Thanked 2,546 Times in 1,536 Posts
The actual XFI I believe is lighter than the other models. I've never seen anything specifically stating what contributes to it. As for the engine differences you can install the XFI camshaft (or get yours reground to XFI specs). The tranny also has different gearing, but going with the 4 cylinder trans is the best (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that one) for mileage.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 03:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
Too many cars
 
Gasoline Fumes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,478

CRXFi - '88 Honda CRX XFi

Insight 256 - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights

Insight 5342 (no IMA) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 64.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 724 Times in 429 Posts
The XFi camshaft and a taller final drive will probably make the most difference. The XFi final drive is 3.79, which is also found in the 1995 and newer 4-cylinder Metros and Swifts. The 1989-1994 SOHC 1.3L 4-cylinder cars had an even taller final drive of 3.52, but they're hard to find. Standard final drive in the 3-cylinder cars was 4.10, or 4.39 in the convertible and 1995+ 3-cylinder Metros. I'm in the process of converting a normal 1994 Metro into better than an XFi.


I don't think the XFi was lighter than a base model 3-door 5-speed Metro with no A/C. These are the differences that I'm aware of:

Camshaft - less lift and duration

ECU

Hotter thermostat and radiator fan switch

One compression ring per piston instead of the usual two (The specially-designed "gapless" single ring is no longer available new)

Taller final drive - 3.79 vs. 4.10

No passenger side mirror (I think they came without them)
__________________
2000 Honda Insight
2000 Honda Insight
2000 Honda Insight
2006 Honda Insight (parts car)
1988 Honda CRXFi
1994 Geo Metro

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 11:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Bicycle Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: N. Saskatchewan, CA
Posts: 1,721

Appliance White - '93 Geo Metro 4-Dr. Auto
Last 3: 42.35 mpg (US)

Stealth RV - '91 Chevy Sprint Base
Thanks: 89
Thanked 424 Times in 298 Posts
The XFI was not sold in Canada, but the 3-tech cam company does grind here. They recommend changing the cam timing as well, which messes with the nitrogen oxide emissions but improves economy. If you have the pre-95 body, it is smaller and lighter, and can be swapped up to 13" tires to help the gearing issue. Those changes get you most of the way there. The weight difference was just cheaper trim and soundproofing. I take out most of the seats, and wear earphones for sound conditioning.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 01:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob View Post
The XFI was not sold in Canada, but the 3-tech cam company does grind here. They recommend changing the cam timing as well, which messes with the nitrogen oxide emissions but improves economy. If you have the pre-95 body, it is smaller and lighter, and can be swapped up to 13" tires to help the gearing issue. Those changes get you most of the way there. The weight difference was just cheaper trim and soundproofing. I take out most of the seats, and wear earphones for sound conditioning.
Ok kool this sounds possible could it be adapted to the Firefly as well as I tend to see some of those come up mostly convertibles lol. I might import the car from the US. I was planning on importing a BMW however gas shot up overnight and frankly I need a car that can be cheep on gas as its a long drive to work. Being a car guy I'd have to put the side mirror back on (or buy a aftermarket one or 2) so I can pass safty. I was looking too remove the sound deadeding material anyways as well as the spare tire kit. The rear seats may come out for most of the time. The interior I might try to make Fiberglass replacement pannels its not hard just time consuming. Do they make Carcon fiber hoods and trunks for the Metro? Not looing to make it a tuner car just want to research it out so I can save weight where ever possible. Without going over kill
__________________
2 cars one never gets driven the other is an MPG project already at 5% increase in standard driving economy CAI and Pulstar plus. Thinking weight reduction next year.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 09:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Bicycle Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: N. Saskatchewan, CA
Posts: 1,721

Appliance White - '93 Geo Metro 4-Dr. Auto
Last 3: 42.35 mpg (US)

Stealth RV - '91 Chevy Sprint Base
Thanks: 89
Thanked 424 Times in 298 Posts
The Firefly is only different in name and minor trim items. I doubt that you will recoup the cost of a lightweight hood in gas savings, but have a look at the major boost available from improving the streamlining. The usual killer of these cars is rust on the front suspension mount. Mechanical work is almost motorcycle-easy.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 10:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob View Post
The Firefly is only different in name and minor trim items. I doubt that you will recoup the cost of a lightweight hood in gas savings, but have a look at the major boost available from improving the streamlining. The usual killer of these cars is rust on the front suspension mount. Mechanical work is almost motorcycle-easy.
Kool good to know. As for the the lack of recouping cost on the hood i can live with that. I'm going to see if I can get one in the near future gas goes any higher and I may buy it sooner.
__________________
2 cars one never gets driven the other is an MPG project already at 5% increase in standard driving economy CAI and Pulstar plus. Thinking weight reduction next year.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 12:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mwebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 513

no nickname , it's just a car - '04 volkswagen golf tdi
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 74 Posts
do NOT use the cam timing advance wheel

if you use the 3tech economy cam do not use their +10 cam wheel .
because if you do it advances EVC Exhaust Valve Close to 334 degrees ATDC which does not allow all of the spent gases to escape into the exhaust before the exhaust valve closes
so
it is kinda like having built in EGR that never switches off
at idle or at WOT , which effectively decreases the engine size and reduces available power
in the geo metro forum
i have put up pressure transducer waveforms showing this with the OEM cam and the 3tech economy cam with the +10 cam wheel
currently
i am using the 3tech economy cam with the OEM cam wheel , have not yet captured the pressure transducer waveforms to see EVC (it should be 344 degrees ATDC now ) but there is a noticeable increase in power .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob View Post
The XFI was not sold in Canada, but the 3-tech cam company does grind here. They recommend changing the cam timing as well, which messes with the nitrogen oxide emissions but improves economy. If you have the pre-95 body, it is smaller and lighter, and can be swapped up to 13" tires to help the gearing issue. Those changes get you most of the way there. The weight difference was just cheaper trim and soundproofing. I take out most of the seats, and wear earphones for sound conditioning.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 07:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
Too many cars
 
Gasoline Fumes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,478

CRXFi - '88 Honda CRX XFi

Insight 256 - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights

Insight 5342 (no IMA) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 64.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 724 Times in 429 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwebb View Post
if you use the 3tech economy cam do not use their +10 cam wheel .
because if you do it advances EVC Exhaust Valve Close to 334 degrees ATDC which does not allow all of the spent gases to escape into the exhaust before the exhaust valve closes
so
it is kinda like having built in EGR that never switches off
at idle or at WOT , which effectively decreases the engine size and reduces available power
in the geo metro forum
i have put up pressure transducer waveforms showing this with the OEM cam and the 3tech economy cam with the +10 cam wheel
currently
i am using the 3tech economy cam with the OEM cam wheel , have not yet captured the pressure transducer waveforms to see EVC (it should be 344 degrees ATDC now ) but there is a noticeable increase in power .
How much advance is too much? The XFi camshaft is ground 6 degrees advanced compared to the base model camshaft. The 3tech economy cam has no additional advance ground into it.
__________________
2000 Honda Insight
2000 Honda Insight
2000 Honda Insight
2006 Honda Insight (parts car)
1988 Honda CRXFi
1994 Geo Metro

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 11:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mwebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 513

no nickname , it's just a car - '04 volkswagen golf tdi
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 74 Posts
the +10 degree cam wheel is TOO much

i do not yet know how much is too much but
the +10 degree cam wheel used with the 3tech economy cam is TOO much.



assuming you have zero experience with pressure transducers
this diagram shows pressure over 720 degrees in one cylinder , begin and end at 0 degrees TDC.

the G10 engine with the OEM cam at idle
and with the
3tech economy cam AND the +10 degree cam wheel at idle and WOT

note the pressure spike inside the red ellipse around 360 degrees after TDC
or 360 ATDC.
the pressure spike is not present on the OEM cam but is with the 3tech economy cam WITH the +10 cam wheel

that pressure spike occurs after the exhaust valve closes
when the piston is still traveling upward expelling spent exhaust gases from the combustion chamber .... but since EVC has already occurred
those gases can not escape
pressure does not drop until the intake valve opens
you can hear this , through the air filter ....

this is
built in ever present always on ... EGR ....
===============================
i have switched back to the OEM cam wheel , with the 3tech economy cam
just need a spare minute to capture some more info


Last edited by mwebb; 10-07-2010 at 11:17 PM.. Reason: clarify
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mwebb For This Useful Post:
Gasoline Fumes (10-08-2010)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low Rolling Resistance selection option on tirerack.com cfg83 EcoModding Central 2 06-13-2010 08:04 AM
New Chart(s), and/or more search option in the Garage page. Lokalazeros Forum News & Feedback 0 05-29-2010 07:19 PM
multiquote option diesel_john Forum News & Feedback 5 05-25-2008 09:15 AM
News: Only 6% of Americans think diesel will succeed as powertrain option MetroMPG General Efficiency Discussion 38 02-14-2008 02:23 AM
Article: Fiat offers "Eco pack" option group ... is the "nerd gear" coming?? MetroMPG General Efficiency Discussion 6 02-06-2008 07:52 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com