Efficient, cheap beaters! Used car ads: 35 mpg highway or more for $1500 or less

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by hayden55

Wow you bought quite the lemon.

at 205k miles my 2010 has been pretty good (purchased around 95k).

Yeah, mine has been the least reliable Toyota I've ever owned - and I've had head gasket blowing rod knockers like 80s Supras & 90s 4runners..

I'm 99% sure the guy I bought the car from sold it to me with a stop leaked blown head gasket because it drove fine for a week then started doing the start-up knock and losing coolant (and normally it takes a while to start losing coolant). I bought it for ~$7,000 at a time when most with similar mileage were going for ~$8,500, but at the time I chalked it up to the minor cosmetic imperfections and the hassle of clearing the lein on the title from his bank.

Anyway, blown head gaskets are extremely common on the 2010-2012s (Toyota redesigned the head gasket sometime in 2013, along with oil control rings). They can still blow on 2013-2015s, but it is not nearly as common.

Thankfully mine isn't an oil burner, but my Prius shop recommended synethic oil 5k PM intervals rather than 10k to prevent gumming up the oil control ring. Obviously it is in their financial interest to recommend oil changes twice as often, but that really wouldn't be a material cost if I wasn't in an apartment and could DIY them.

The hybrid battery failing at 155k was partly my fault & partly the previous owner. He drove a long haired golden retriever around all the time and its hair got everywhere. I noticed this hair magically reappearing every time I detailed the inside the first year, but it never occurred to me to clean the traction battery & fan. I also accelerated the battery wear the first year by trying to drive it as an electric car as long as possible (i.e. accelerating super slowly to keep the HSI below 1/2 and then trying to keep my city thoroughfare cruising speed below ~42mph). Excessive charging/discharging will accelerate battery degredation. It also isn't even good for fuel economy (which I also did not know at the time), because the round trip efficiency of the NiMh battery is like 64% (vs 90% for Li ion).

Out of my control were the 0-120° F outside temperatures (which means the inside cabin temperature often gets to 150°F parked in the sun). For best life, batteries should be kept below 114°F I also drive a fair bit in the foothills which means the battery frequently gets charged above 80% SOC when holding speed at the speed limit when going downhill. For best battery life, the SOC should stay between 25-75%... Unfortunately, mine failed at 155k rather than 149k - the hybrid system warranty in CARB states is 10 years & 150k...

Failing brake boosters are not quite as common, but happened enough that Toyota issued TSBs and will now replace it for free within 10 years & 150,000 miles of the car first being put into service. I'm obviously past that. They also developed a special service tool to allow them to replace it without dismantling as much stuff, which saves quite a bit of labor. With gentle deceleration using the hybrid system I almost never use the mechanical brakes (at ~200k the original brakes still have half life) so the booster may last another year or two. I can just hear/feel it now when first starting the car for the day.

Only faults I have really had to deal with is rear brakes seized up, and I had to do an EGR delete (cleaned it but left the delete).

If yours isn't an oil burner and you want maximum MPG you should probably fix the EGR. In the Gen3 and especially the Gen4 Prius, Toyota also uses the EGR to reduce pumping losses (similar to how some people here use warm air intakes).

See:
https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2010/06/67317.pdf

the MY2010 Prius also specifically seeks to improve the vehicle’s real-world fuel economy, namely, hot and cold weather operation as well as improving high-speed operation with minimal compromise to urban driving.

To accomplish these objectives, the majority of the Prius’ hybrid components have been redesigned or updated. Engine displacement has increased to 1.8L versus the previous 1.4L in order to increase efficiency at higher vehicle speeds. In order to maintain lowspeed vehicle efficiency, an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system was included

[hayden55]

Yup. I am continuing to test my EGR delete theory. Even with the larger tires, before and after the EGR delete I'm still getting 50+ mpg which is better than most people who still have EGR and smaller tires. I probably will leave the EGR deleted. Too dangerous with it perpetually clogging at varying rates. lol
The gasketmaster's video where they unplug the EGR electrical connector and the car starts running smoothly to diagnose a clogged egr is where the idea came from. So the EGR electrical failure map that is programmed to run without EGR is fitting my needs well for around 15k miles now. If it needed EGR it seems like I would be experiencing harsher consequences after 15k miles without it now.
And you are correct, use the battery more for keeping the engine off when stopped or in neutral. Don't drive in electric mode it is bad for gas mileage and the battery. I may on occasion scoot up to a stoplight in electric or scoot out of a parking lot in electric but that's it.
Get a scanguage and program it for SOC. Stock map really tries to keep the car below 80% and above 25% and does a good job at it too. I typically stay around 58-70% most of the time. Above around 75% I just throw the car in neutral and use the mechanical brakes to stop since if it gets too high it will kick the engine on to keep the battery from overcharging and bleed off the extra energy anyways.
Judging by my paragraph you can tell these really are an enthusiast cars (finicky too).
Expect 10 years out of a battery and if you cycle them correctly you'll get extra. Cycles go up infinitely the closer you keep the battery to 50% but nimh has a memory effect that makes that hard especially on mine.

EGR delete isn't for everyone especially you guys with emissions test, but you should start changing your own oil. I did mine in the parking lot of my dorm for a long time no problem. Measure oil in and oil out. All cars burn oil especially 2010-2011 priuses

[Drifter]

In theory if you're pulse & gliding the EGR delete shouldn't really cost you mpg since you're accelerating at relatively high load where EGR wouldn't help pumping losses. It largely helps at low loads where the throttle plate is a major pumping restriction.

Yeah now I mainly use electric when moving my car out of the neighborhood & past its frequent stop signs when the engine is cool. If the engine starts right away, mpg plummets as it runs the entire time trying to warm up the cat. If I gingerly drive the ~1/2 mile out of the neighborhood and onto the 45mph boulevard before letting the engine kick on, the engine will warm up as I gently accelerate to 45 without dinging my overall mpg too much. My new battery has a 5 year unlimited mile warranty so I'm not too concerned with maximizing its lifespan.

Other than that, I only use electric in places where I can't exceed ~15mph (crowded parking lots, dusty dirt roads, etc). Otherwise in low-speed environments I'll just pulse to 25 and coast to 10...

I have (or had) a scangauge, but a friend borrowed it to clear some codes a while ago and I've yet to get it back. I have only used it on my base model Tundra (no tach or oil pressure gauges), so I'm not sure what gauges are available with the Prius. I assume coolant temp, but is their oil temp too? I'd like to experiment with grill blocking without putting extra stress on the head gasket...

As soon as we stop getting sporadic snow storms I can probably take out ~100 lbs of winter travel/survival gear. But seeing as how I-80 was just closed yesterday due to snow, we're not quite there yet...

I'd have no problems changing my own oil (I'd prefer it), but it just isn't allowed at my apartment complex. I already push it with 3 cars and I even got a warning for working on my car in the 30-45 minutes it took me to replace my HVAC blower motor/fan! So for now if it can't be done at a gas station or auto parts store parking lot, I just let the shop do it. It costs more, but they're fair and there is a running trail nearby so I can be productive while they service it. And if I have them do all the PMs, they'll also clean my EGR every ~50-60K at no extra charge...

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by Drifter

In theory if you're pulse & gliding the EGR delete shouldn't really cost you mpg since you're accelerating at relatively high load where EGR wouldn't help pumping losses. It largely helps at low loads where the throttle plate is a major pumping restriction.

Yeah now I mainly use electric when moving my car out of the neighborhood & past its frequent stop signs when the engine is cool. If the engine starts right away, mpg plummets as it runs the entire time trying to warm up the cat. If I gingerly drive the ~1/2 mile out of the neighborhood and onto the 45mph boulevard before letting the engine kick on, the engine will warm up as I gently accelerate to 45 without dinging my overall mpg too much. My new battery has a 5 year unlimited mile warranty so I'm not too concerned with maximizing its lifespan.

Other than that, I only use electric in places where I can't exceed ~15mph (crowded parking lots, dusty dirt roads, etc). Otherwise in low-speed environments I'll just pulse to 25 and coast to 10...

I have (or had) a scangauge, but a friend borrowed it to clear some codes a while ago and I've yet to get it back. I have only used it on my base model Tundra (no tach or oil pressure gauges), so I'm not sure what gauges are available with the Prius. I assume coolant temp, but is their oil temp too? I'd like to experiment with grill blocking without putting extra stress on the head gasket...

As soon as we stop getting sporadic snow storms I can probably take out ~100 lbs of winter travel/survival gear. But seeing as how I-80 was just closed yesterday due to snow, we're not quite there yet...

I'd have no problems changing my own oil (I'd prefer it), but it just isn't allowed at my apartment complex. I already push it with 3 cars and I even got a warning for working on my car in the 30-45 minutes it took me to replace my HVAC blower motor/fan! So for now if it can't be done at a gas station or auto parts store parking lot, I just let the shop do it. It costs more, but they're fair and there is a running trail nearby so I can be productive while they service it. And if I have them do all the PMs, they'll also clean my EGR every ~50-60K at no extra charge...

Yikes! I figured that might be the case. I've never lived in an area where people cared. But a friend just recently got in trouble working on his boat in his driveway. Wtf. Yup I make sure to pulse out of the drive way up to 20mph all electric and clear half the neighborhood before the engine kicks in.
Interesting enough you are correct. Load used to stay around 92% the entire time. Max now is achieved around 2000 rpm which gives me 85% load but it tapers back down to 80% for long term. Now it hovers around 75-85ish%. Interesting. 90ish% is supposedly maximum pumping loss reduction from that old airplane study where they were trying to increase range through efficiency.
I'm kinda okay with that though. I think that EGR map is a little bit risky to run on a high mileage 2010.

[Xist]

My sister once lived next to a closed Sonic next to an O'Reilly. I fixed something in the abandoned shade.

That lady sold her Prius, so this message is the extent of my time and energy that I am wasting.

[Xist]

It cranks and starts with the crankshaft position sensor disconnected, but runs like crap. It got hot coming up the hill from the valley last summer. Shut it down and had it towed home. I found that the fan circuit was not working and not coming on. So I believe it over heated and may have melted the crank position sensor. I am as far into it as Iam will to go. Asking $800 will need to be towed. The interior is clean, new tires put on, with new shocks and struts. New fuel pump and sending unit. Was a great commute car, don’t know why the fan stopped working. Never had any issues prior.

That's a lot of miles, but she is a good-looking car, and for $800 I would be willing to tow it to Napa and ask them to poke it with a stick.

If I can get it on the road for a reasonable price would I want to keep it or ask the Alaskan to trade keys?

It is 3 years newer than my Accord and looks vastly better, but has another 25,000 miles.

Yup, 11% more miles!

If it doesn't have any major leaks then it should be in better shape!

Drifter, if you missed the Alaskan drama, I envy you!

[Drifter]

2003 Civic GX (runs on natural gas) with an expired tank for $500: https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...23&acctid=7436 This is one was owned by the ports and has <30,000 miles, so it was probably only driven around at neighborhood speeds.

EPA rated for 31mpg, but these days CNG costs about half of gasoline so economically (and emission-ally) it far exceeds 35mpg. Cleaner burning & domestically sourced fuel to boot! You can even rig up a system to fill it at home.

The downsides:
150-200 mile range, the useable trunk space is about half as deep, it doesn't make as much power as gasoline, and CNG stations are pretty rare. Oh and that expired CNG tank would cost ~$2500 to replace if you took it to a shop (vs assuming the liability of filling it on your own). Automotive CNG tanks were initially certified for 15 years, but are now certified for 25...

[Piotrsko]

AFAIK, you wouldn't necessarily replace a CNG tank unless it failed the pressure test on recertification or it has a mandatory replacement date stamped on it somewhere. Trick is finding a recert company. Maybe one of the propane tank refill outfits? The transport company I worked for has vans that are 20+ years old and are too cheap to replace tanks.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Xist

this message is the extent of my time and energy that I am wasting.

Likewise, I'm not wasting much time / energy window shopping these days... because there are currently only 3 (THREE!) cheap manual shift cars for sale in my arera. And one of them is a dump truck.



Only 3 cars is pretty extreme. In the past 6 months or so, a more normal number would have been 15-ish results. In the good old days, 20 or 30 cars would come up.


Scarcity, price inflation, plus the time of year, I suppose.



Plus, I guess since I only search for stickshifts, the pool is shrinking with every passing year.

[Nissandriver]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Likewise, I'm not wasting much time / energy window shopping these days...

Plus, I guess since I only search for stickshifts, the pool is shrinking with every passing year.

That´s sad. What I could get for $1500 a few years ago everybody seems to want about $3000 for now. Manuals are getting rare. I recently read that less than 3% of vehicles sold in the US in 2021 had a manual transmission.