EPA may fine VW

[wdb]

Who are these people who think they're going to be able to buy a used one and drive it? As-is, the cars won't be legal on the road due to excessive pollution. VW dealers fixing bought back cars and reselling them would be a PR disaster (unless the fix involves complete removal of the diesel components and replacement with some other drivetrain). And private party un-fixing... why not just pipe the exhaust back into the interior and get it over with sooner. Nope, there will be two flavors of these cars after all is said and done: "fixed", and destroyed.

My barber has a 2014 (I think) VW diesel she bought new and intended to keep for 20 years. She says the numbers are still in flux but work out to her essentially being given the full price she paid new for the vehicle, and then some. She looks at it as having had a free car for a few years. She and her husband are taking the car on a multi-thousand mile trip out west, next month, while it still gets astounding gas mileage. Then she's going to take the money. And she might buy another VW with it.

[Xist]

That article says Volkswagen still has not figured out how to fix those cars and may not have a solution.
Export them to another market?

[freebeard]

I can't find the link, but I saw a suggestion to take them off the highway and into a new 'dirty diesel' racing class for ontrack use.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by wdb

Who are these people who think they're going to be able to buy a used one and drive it? As-is, the cars won't be legal on the road due to excessive pollution... And private party un-fixing... why not just pipe the exhaust back into the interior and get it over with sooner.

That's a lot of hyperbole. These diesels are WAY cleaner than the old ones from before the 90's. Sure, they might "spew" up to 40x the claimed amount, but we're not experiencing an environmental disaster. Tons of other diesels are much more polluting, and nobody is talking about how they are killing us.

Further, there are many markets even in the US that do not require emission testing. Most of Oregon doesn't require a vehicle to pass any emission testing.

I'd pay extra to have a fixed TDI; one that has the urea and DPF junk removed, and the tune set for more power and fuel economy. I doubt I'm alone in preferring this configuration, as some people realize that they are likely to die of heart disease or cancer, not diesel emission poisoning.

This isn't to minimize VW culpability in deceiving consumers and the government, but I want to put the risk to human well-being in proper perspective. If someone is concerned that TDI engines are killing them, then they should be gripped by sheer terror by their diet and exercise choices, and their likely death by heart failure.

It's good to see that VW owners are likely to get fairly compensated, and that a portion of their compensation is punitive, setting the tone that deception is too risky, and ultimately unprofitable.

[ChillyBear]

Originally Posted by darcane

This article just showed up in my inbox:
Volkswagen To Take $18.2B Hit From Emissions Scandal

Expected loss for 2015 is $18.2 Billion.
That doesn't include ongoing fines, legal judgments, and lost sales.


I'm curious what percentage of owners ignore the recall altogether and keep their cars in their "dirty" state. And then, after this blows over, will these cars be valued higher than the "fixed" cars because they are more fuel efficient?

I don't know much about diesels, but I would say the opposite is gonna happen. The tdi's are probably going to loose power and efficiency due to the ecu reflash. Public opinion may improve to the layman, but car guys will know that the EPA ruined the TDI.
Also, I think the whole lawsuit is for "cycle beating" which means it will pass an emissions test, but when driven like a car and not like a predetermined cycle, the car will open electronic "easter eggs" and pollute more under load or while cruising.


I personally am not a big EPA fan, and drive a ford which is guilty of the same things as vw. Ford got a 30 million dollar fine, and they didn't reflash the escorts, only the econolines. I think this 18+18 billion on Volkswagen is fraud.

Pure negativity from me over here.

[freebeard]

If there is a sliver lining (In a cloud? what's that supposed to mean again?) then it is that this will push one group of manufacturers toward an all electric future. With them pushing and whole countries pulling, it could go pretty quickly.

[COcyclist]

I just got my 29 page VW/Audi Diesel Emissions Settlements manual. We took the $1,000 loyalty gift cards last year and we stand to get another $6,000 plus from the settlement. We can sell the car back to VAG (a a very fair price) or get the fix and the cash and keep the car. Or I suppose we could leave the cash on the table and keep it as it is. We have until Sept 1, 2018 to decide.

VW will pay $2 billion "to promote non-polluting cars (ZEV) over and above any amount Volkswagen previously planned to spend on such technology."

However, if the EPA/CARB cannot reach and agreement on the emissions modification "Volkswagen is prohibited from re-selling those cars in the U.S or abroad." Since the TDI passed the dyno test I think this is unlikely. It should just require a computer re-flash.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by COcyclist

It should just require a computer re-flash.

... and de-tuned performance, lower fuel economy, and increased wear on the DPF regen system, not to mention plummeting resale value.

I'd probably either sell it back to them, or do nothing so that I can keep the excellent fuel economy.

[Hersbird]

I am kind of in the market for a 3.0 TDI suv but they are really in limbo. It made me wonder what happened to the people who have had to sell their car after the cheat was found but before the settlement. Seems they get at least 1/2 the settlement but may have took even a bigger hit then that on the trade in. Other who bought well below NADA may get to bank both 1/2 the settlement plus get VW to buy at NADA and bank again. So I thought there might be some good deals on 3.0s out there but instead if anything it has helped their value as they too may get the high valued buybacks. VW doesn't think they will need a buyback on the 3.0s as they have all the necessary smog stuff in place like DPF and urea tanks already, just a tune. So people holding them asking too much may be in for disappointment.
Now the $70,000 Mercedes ML or GL 3.0 diesels can be found easily under $20k now. I just wish they made a simple basic version of those things. Makes me just want to buy an old Sprinter and fix it up.

[gone-ot]

Just remember the EPA's (gooberments) mindset when it comes to breaking their rules: "You ARE guilty until you prove, to their satisfaction, that you are NOT guilty."