Fully Suspended Tribrid Tadpole

[HHOTDI]

BarelyAwake....that is an awesome job Sir, I am impressed! I too have considered a Tad-Trike Hybrid design to power with a diesel/Pedal power. I have been waiting for over a year for the V-Twin Diesel motors to be imported for my motorcycle project that is still on the shelf waiting, so I am about to settle on a 1cyl 10hp and put it in a Recumbent. I too downloaded the ZombieTrike build. I am trying to finish up a few wood projects before I start cutting/Welding steel! Excellent job Sir, excited to see some pics of you riding it! http://a1biofuel.net/Punsun-10hp-Specs.html

:{)

[BarelyAWake]

Originally Posted by jared1970

BarelyAwake, how is your trike coming along? I just found this thread and think your project is interesting. Have you considered using the engine as a generator for the electric hub rather than connecting it mechanically to the wheel? This could eliminate the problem of premature wear on the geared hub. Just use the engine as a range extender like the Chevy Volt does. I'm not sure how you could do it, but if you've managed to build this thing up to this point you're probably clever enough to make it happen.

Well TBH it's "come along" not even a little bit since my last post... every season I seem to forget I never get anything done during the sunny summer months as I'm far too busy jus' slackin' and ridin' around lol, this season "worst" than most as the ebike I cobbed together turned out to be not only really entertaining, but incredibly reliable as well - so my tools lay forgotten, dusty & unused, all projects "on hold" till the long cold dark drives me to tinker the madness away... or to try anyway heh

The winter will be here soon though, so it's a mere matter of time before I try to (not) set the shop, me or my projects on fire... the taddy is pretty close to completion, so the remaining winter months should offer plenty of opportunity for refinements, which is good - as evidenced, I can't be trusted to do anything more come spring

As for "consider(ing) using the engine as a generator for the electric hub rather than connecting it mechanically to the wheel?" I have yes, but the Lifan is ill-suited for the task given it's configuration - I'd need to rebuild it to be specifically a generator given the demands of the electric drive, or better yet use an actual generator in it's place... while I gave such a lot of thought during the daydream/R&D stage, I decided against it given the limited selection of 50cc or less generators (there's sorta a lot of them, but few to my liking) and the redundancy of having a generator when the electric hub has not only regenerative capabilities, but adjustable perimeters (level of regen/drag) as well.

Add in space considerations, intended use & the exponential per HP price... and I "copped out" & went with this "sorta" hybrid configuration, It outa work out well enough however as not only are the charging systems "married" - the LiFePO4 battery packs I've gotten have turned out to be far better than anticipated, or even needed for this project - a pleasant surprise indeed lol

The "the problem of premature wear on the geared hub" isn't near as bad as you'd think - I had reservations myself, but after roughly five thousand miles putting about an equivalent HP through what should be a more "delicate" setup, a Sturmey Archer X-RD3 (3 Speed internal gear hub with 70mm drum brake) with another build (a '43 Rollfast) and the absolute lack of any issue of failure and the success others have had w/a powertrain through a derailleur system, I've decided to take a chance & do the same w/this... if the cassette fails I can replace the disc brake w/a sprocket for the four stroke... but obv I'm hoping it won't come to that

Originally Posted by HHOTDI

BarelyAwake....that is an awesome job Sir, I am impressed! I too have considered a Tad-Trike Hybrid design to power with a diesel/Pedal power. I have been waiting for over a year for the V-Twin Diesel motors to be imported for my motorcycle project that is still on the shelf waiting, so I am about to settle on a 1cyl 10hp and put it in a Recumbent. I too downloaded the ZombieTrike build. I am trying to finish up a few wood projects before I start cutting/Welding steel! Excellent job Sir, excited to see some pics of you riding it! Punsun-10hp-Specs

:{)

Thanks HHOTDI

I very much wanted to make this a diesel-electric, it was the initial plan & I still very much yearn to do so... but despite my wants & nearly two years (already? wow) of searching I have failed miserably in finding a small, compact & efficient diesel suitable for the constraints I'm under. The "1cyl 10hp" you've mentioned still 5x over the maximum allowed for the moped/motorized bicycle classification in my state, a hybrid/tribrid a gray area in any case.

As you no doubt know, what's currently available in "small" diesels are monstrously heavy and tend to have severe vibration issues (comparatively ofc). I've learned "average" bicycle components can withstand 2-3hp w/o much difficulty, just the normal maintenance you'd expect with the vastly higher mileage in far less time that happens w/motorization & "quality" components, ie - not necessarily what bicyclists consider quality (usually weight/exotic materials) but durability, can usually withstand roughly 5-6hp without immediate failure...

...but that's with lightweight two strokes or heavyish, but smooth running four strokes... and the failure rate is obv higher the greater the HP... so, with a 10hp diesel I really would suggest sticking with motorcycle components due to the weight & stresses placed on them - still an awesome idea (recumbent diesel motorcycle) & defo build what you will, but with 10hp you might as well skip the pedals as even with the added weight, you'll never use them - the average speed with even just 2hp is around 35mph and no "pedal assist" is actually required (particularly w/gears). With a 10, the human input would be so marginal as to be pretty much irrelevant...

Nevertheless - defo do w/e ya wanna, far be it for me to discourage the tinkerer lol & with these things there's still so much unexplored, I could well be wrong, it's not like I've built a 10hp diesel taddy



If anyone's wondering what I've been up to instead of tinkerin' the tribrid taddy as I prolly outa have been, it's this that's distracted me away from my shop heh: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...arl-21723.html

[bobo333]

Great write up and awesome build!

I am soon to lose my car license so im currently looking around for other transport and a hybrid bike is high on my list, a combination of a hub motor and the 50cc 2 stroke i already have sounds like mighty good fun

a tadpole like this is probably out of my league (time more so than construction ability) but its good to dream!

[Varn]

Sorry to hear that bobo.
Around our town we have lots of what we call DWI riders. Usually all males from 25-50, they ride around with the seat very low and no leg extension Usually wearing work clothes with a cadence about 40 and a cigarette in their hand.

You might want to get a decent road bike. In a few months you might be able to cruise at 15-20 mph and free yourself of the expenses of owning a vehicle and the stigma of being a dui-rider.

Originally Posted by bobo333

Great write up and awesome build!

I am soon to lose my car license so im currently looking around for other transport and a hybrid bike is high on my list, a combination of a hub motor and the 50cc 2 stroke i already have sounds like mighty good fun

a tadpole like this is probably out of my league (time more so than construction ability) but its good to dream!

[BarelyAWake]

Well, it's been a good summer filled w/adventure great & small but alas... it's back to cold & gray frosty blech, so I'v started to burrow in, tinkerin' on the taddy again lol & I figured I'd get this thread up to date;

Well let's see... turkey day came and went & delicious as the bird may be, it's also a harbinger, the final warning of the impending chill, the long cold dark that's here to stay. While I still ride ofc, the wanderabouts & meaningless meanderings are remarkable only in there brevity lol

So, time to dust off the tools & the taddy while I'm at it, it's amazing how much chaos can collect in a mere matter of months, my mental state included as I strain to remember just what exactly I may be doing...

Right, stuff & stuff heh

Anyhoo - turns out I made a grave miscalculation, I'd assumed I'd be done "testing" the electric drive components of this hybrid months ago when if fact I seem to have gained another addiction instead: Ruined by an electric bike... and can't seem to bring myself to stop riding the "test" bike, which is obv a test bike no longer after over three thousand miles and here to stay. Which is all fine & good and I'm very pleased w/it... except ofc I'd pilfered the taddy for dealies, widgets, bits & things - perilously close to a grand in parts have been reallocated, usurped for another cause.

I'd ofc toyed with the idea of scrapping the hybrid aspect of the taddy, to simplify the build and to make amends, to calm the pitiful wails of my wallet...

Yea, ta heck with that lol - if anything 'Mongo' the "test" bike made me more determined to make this work, the electric bit just too nifty to ignore. I've learned a few things however such as while the 48v 15ah LiFePO4 battery pack & Magic Pie 1000w hub are great on a bicycle - they are in fact a touch "overkill" as just a supplementary drive on a hybrid, I'll not need the 30 mile range or all the nifty, fancy-pants things the 'Pie's controller is capable of.

So I decided to experiment some more, to take a chance with a ever so slightly more powerful hub motor, yet one that doesn't have all the bells'n whistles... or reputation for customer support as it's a "generic" no name knock-off... but w/e lol, I s'pose we'll see *shrug*

It's from a fleabay merchant, so the listings expire and as I've not tested it yet I can't recommend it.... but it seems to have some potential, it's rather drab name is: 'Rear Hub Motor Kit with 26" Rim, 7 Speed Gears Flywheel and Brake Disk' which supposedly is capable of up to 1200w from;

items in moreBatteryStore store on eBay!



...for a mere $250, I'm willing enough to give the kit a shot, but ofc that doesn't include the pesky batteries - the real cost of an electric setup.

I also ordered a bigger (wider) rim for the hub Alex DX32 26" 36H Black - while it turns out the hub kit comes with exactly the same double wall rim as the 'Pie (just not painted black), I just don't want such a skinny one as that (the Alex is 1.5", the MP 1");



Fate was smiling for a change however & as luck would have it a friend just happened to have a 36v 12ah GM LiFePO4 battery pack and was willing to part with it, provided I could make it work w/my setup... while it's 36v and I need 48 - getting another three cells & a different BMS is simple enough, adding them not a big deal at all so that settles that I figured.

The GM LFP-3612S-LT (36v 12ah LiFePO4) stripped of it's case;


Only it didn't lol as there seems to be a 36v conspiracy afoot - not only did I end up with a 36v pack, the b'danged fleabay seller sent me a 36v controller instead of the 48 I wanted - I could ofc simply demand what I ordered, I could ofc just buy another...

I think I'll accept destiny and just 36v the taddy lol, I really don't think for this particular application it'll make much of a difference, the lower the voltage the higher the amp draw to maintain the wattage - which combined with the smaller (but lighter ofc) battery will result in a range penalty, but as it's a hybrid range doesn't matter as much, not to mention my wallet is very pleased with the decision heh

So, now I just have to make a completely different electric drive system work with a project designed otherwise. There's a bunch of lil things that now need to be altered such as the hub is a 1/2" too wide for the dropouts, the disc brake caliper needs be relocated, the controller is no longer internal and the battery is ofc a completely different size & shape so I'll hafta figure out where & how to make them fit on a project that's been an ongoing fight for every fraction of an inch - which should be interesting.



...and while I was "patiently" waiting for the blasted brown truck, I did manage to knock another little thing off the to-do list, minor perhaps but every bit helps heh

I'd gotten a set of 'Blazer' driving lights from ol' wallyworld, chrome & halogen they were too shiny for my eyes & too hungry for the amps, so I converted them to a pair of 'Torchstar' LED MR16 Halogen replacement spotlights (12V 4W/440 Lumen), one with a 30° beam angle (high beam & cool white) and one with a 60° for the low/daytime driving (in a warm yellow). Just 4w instead of 50w & jus' four bucks each FTW, then I painted some of the shiny away as I'm not the biggest fan of chrome... particularly right where it'd reflect the sun's glare right into my eyes, headlights being to help ya see not hinder it right?

Not a big deal at all 'cept ofc the LED bulbs were almost 1/4" taller (longer?) so I had to gut the housing & make different plugins, easy e'nuff & 'nother thing done;

[BarelyAWake]

I'm defo out of synch w/this project, I've forgotten me numbers and just how nit picky all the measurements really are, that I need to check to be sure no matter what I seemed to remember. I just spent the better part of the morning repacking the battery & shrink wrapping, a simple task made slightly tedious by the fact I've just a pencil torch, lacking the heat gun I should have for such - no matter, it jus' takes a lil longer is all...

...only to find the silly thing was 1/2" too tall, hitting the seat before it could recline fully - so I had to cut it all back apart again and pray I could figure a way to reconfigure the cells to fit. I knew I could separate it into two separate packs and mount them one per side as the 48v packs were if all else failed - but one of the gains of using this smaller 36v pack is I can use one tray for the battery & the other for assorted electronics & the controller, which fits so well it gets a lil stuck actually heh

So here we go the exacto knife again, cuttin' up my pretty shrink wrap job... not so pretty actually so it's just as well, I need the practice. After separating the cells, removing the center retainer & ever so gently bending the pack in half as not to break the cell's tabs I find I'm within 1/8" if I move the BMS to the side instead of what is now the top!

YAY! (lil dance) Obv I'm relieved - if I couldn't make all the cells fit on one side, I'd hafta find a place for the new controller and that isn't something I wanted to contemplate as I'm fighting for fractions of an inch for every component on this thing, the new controller isn't exactly small either. I'm very glad I made these trays big enough to fit SLAs as gives me a lil wiggle room for the different LiFePO4 combinations I had no idea I'd be experimenting with lol

Now that I know they'll fit, I just need to swap out the connectors & rewire to match my harness, then shrink wrap it again;

[BarelyAWake]

...and repacking & shrink wrapping the battery pack "take two" went well, I added some dense foam spacer dealies between the stacks of cells and on the back & sides before wrapping to prevent movement/chafe & potential shorts - the original GM case had this and I thought it clever, kinda wish I'd thought of it lol

So anyway, here's a coupla more pics, though the battery is about 1/4" taller than the pack I designed the tray for, the nylon cover still fit - which is good as I really don't like sewing heh... the last pic is of just the mounts w/the tray removed, figured I'd show what I mean when I complain about "fighting for fractions of an inch"



One of the things that tripped me up as a bit unexpected was seems I don't own anything like a small bottle or scissor jack to spread the stays with... well... that's not really surprising I s'pose as I don't bother with cars anymore. Still I hadta zoom around a bit to a coupla friend's shops and say "yes, I know floor jacks are better & safer for lifting a car, but I don't need to lift a car - can I borrow the jack you hate please?"

...and eventually got what I needed to spread the chainstays enough to fit my new hub motor lol

I coulda just used a plank or whatever, but that coulda twisted the stays a little (defo don't want alignment issues) and I woulda had to have removed the stays from the taddy... which is not that big a deal, I'll hafta do that anyway to weld the rear caliper mount & (hopefully) have it all powdercoated but as the jackshaft, three chains and two derailleurs (one is just a tensioner) are all routed through there - well, I'd like to keep it's disassembly to a minimum heh

While it's preformance is yet to be tested, I must say I do kinda like how this hub looks on the taddy better than the MP - not that such really matters *shrug* That's not the correct rotor (Avid), it's just the one that came with the kit... and I think it's on backwards lol but no matter, I've gotta pull it all back apart again anyway as I need to replace the rim itself with my spiffy new wider one (still yet to be shipped);

[BarelyAWake]

Well, just as inevitable as the long, cold dark this time o'year is the onset of illness - the upstairs neighbor's kid seems determined to bring home every bug they can find... and sharing is good right? Yea...

So, addled on cough syrup & brain filled with snot the simplest tasks become a challenge - fortunately I've a looooong list of challenging simple tasks lol, so I've mucked about just doing not very interesting or photogenic things like some minor rewiring, resoldering connectors & reorganizing components to adapt to this different hub drive, battery pack & the fact it's now 36 instead of 48 volt.

Nevertheless, in the predawn silence and with no fanfare save a small snort of satisfaction - a major milestone was reached, the electric drive is live! While I was just testing components - this does mean I could tidy it up a bit, drag it outside & tootle around w/two of it's three drive systems (pedal & electric ofc)... dunno if I'm gonna though, seems like cheating somehow heh

Here's a pic & a very short lil vid... not terribly exciting I suspect - unless yer the guy who's had the silly thing "dead" on his bench all this time ...don't worry 'bout the "wheel hop" as in my haste I didn't seat the bead properly - the rim & tire is getting replaced anyway;

MVI_2305 - YouTube



One of the "minor" tasks I've obv not attended to is cleaning up my shop, but hey - gotta have priorities right? & jus' because it's been awhile, this is what the taddy and my shop is s'posed to look like lol;



...and one of the consequences of switching to 36v instead of the originally planned 48 is I've both 48 to 12v & 12 to 48v power converters that are now no longer applicable... so in the interest of simplicity, I've temporally shelved any attempt at efficient cross-charging and just got a wee lil inverter to plug the LiFePO4 charger into - it's a cheat & wasteful it's true, but also really easy & convenient *shrug* even if/when I sort out the 36v thing (converters) or decide I need to upgrade back to 48v it'll still be a handy thing to have I figure;

Wagan 2402-5 Smart AC 200W Inverter;


...and another pesky lil thing I've neglected for too long is a center stand - I gave thought to stea... erm *cough* "borrowing" the super-rugged stand off'n a friend's 70's Puch moped parked (& leaking b'dangit) in my shop - then realized he'd have far more to gain "borrowing" my stuff then me his, so I jus' went ahead and ordered a second one of these, the first being usurped by Mongo the ebike, as so many other taddy bits have;

Acclaim Double Black Kickstand;


While a nice "clean" (no exposed springs etc) stand & rugged enough for the job, it like most isn't strong enough for me to kick start the ICE and/or put my full weight on it with the weight of the taddy too - but I don't need to do either of those things (auto clutched and electric start, kick is just a backup) and it'd be easy enough to modify if I decide I wanna... and it's a LOT lighter than the Puch's steel one w/o the consequences lol

[HHOTDI]

lol, too bad we are in the opposite corners of the country as I would love to help you finish this and build one of my own. Excellent job Sir! :{)

[BarelyAWake]

Thanks HHOTDI! I'm flattered indeed - but fear there's little hope & no help for me lol Seriously though, the main reason I post this madness is if someone should wish to do something similar, to build their own abomination of sorts - they may take heed of my mistakes, to shortcut the learning curve & jump ahead w/far fewer do-overs & time spent simply searching for stuff lol... speaking of;


It's getting progressively more & more difficult to take any meaningful pics of the progress as it seems most of the time I've spent of late has been diggin' through my old notes - trying to catch up with what I was doing just one short season ago lol, for example I'd made detailed schematics of the lighting & accessories harness & had any number of copies jus' laying about, but the schematic I needed to continue was no more than an identifier for the twenty pin pedal boom connector, jotted down in haste on the back of one of my notebooks & for the life of me I couldn't remember where it was...

...after way too long searching I did finally find it & psyched to continue on I grabbed a multimeter, continuity tester, soldering gun & torch and thus armed, joyfully dived into sorting out the mess of wires I dared call a harness to be. Yet before I could even burn a finger I discovered I'd wasted my time & much unnecessary frustration by hunting for stuff I didn't need - as a far more dutiful previous me had very carefully labeled every single wire to be found with tiny tags of masking tape & a fine point sharpie.

Well alrighty then, apparently I'm smarter than me... or at least I was lol

Anyhoo, once that momentary panic settled down to mere embarrassment things progressed quite nicely, in a slight haze of resin smoke wires joined together with ease (I do so love that smell) and I achieved another "milestone" that being completing the relayed main power supplies for both the 36 & 12v systems, activated via keyed switch, powered by the onboard 12v SLA - which now done, means I can move on to sorting out the snarled mess of electrical components and their connectors, senders & switches, the last "major" task this project awaits! There's still a buncha "minor" ones, but the harness is the hurdle I've feared heh

Another very short lil vid, again prolly not terribly exciting for anyone other'n me... but I will admit I did spend some time just switching the relay bank on & off again listening to the clicking sound & watching the dash light up w/a mayhaps disproportionate glee;

MVI_2330 - YouTube

I did however manage a few other things as well, such as sorting out the right hand side "battery" tray (misnamed as it's a batt tray no longer ofc) and dropping of the rear wheel w/the hub motor & new rim to be built.

Here's summore pics jus' for the heck of it - note the almost terrifying mess of wires in the third pic, which isn't actually nearly as terrifying as it may seem at a glance as they're almost all just for the assorted sending units the Vapor dash requires, all of which are overly long and will be trimmed down to fit, better too much than not enough I figure lol;