how much longer for the ICE now Americia's best selling Vehicle has gone electric?

[redneck]

.

Electric cars don’t even make a percent or two of the total vehicles yet, and there are already problems.


https://www.newsmax.com/us/californi...28/id/1026765/

“[C]harging behaviors matter when it comes to California grid goals. By incentivizing, primarily through rates, charging behaviors that capitalize on when renewable energy is being generated—we basically have a win for the grid, and we have a win for the drivers in terms of reduced rates. Rates are a climate strategy, and California plans on using rates to help drive the charging behaviors that are going to help the state electrify transportation while cutting carbon from the grid and saving ratepayers and drivers money.”

🤔

Rates are a climate strategy...???



That’s a new one...


>

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[falkin42]

Influencing human behavior is a climate strategy, yeah. No one is forcing anyone to buy an ev, but if you do you get a bonus. Charge it whenever you want but if you do it during certain times you get a bonus. What's wrong with that?

[oil pan 4]

Instead of rolling blackouts during the summer it will be rolling blackouts all year, every year.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by falkin42

No one is forcing anyone to buy an ev, but if you do you get a bonus. Charge it whenever you want but if you do it during certain times you get a bonus. What's wrong with that?

Electricity to charge the car is not separable from electricity run the lights and refrigerator.

[redneck]

.

“Climate” is now a buzz word, just like “green”.
It’s added to everything. Whether it has any bearing or not.


Also.

charging behaviors that capitalize on when renewable energy is being generated

🤔

I doubt they’ll give any incentives for charging during daylight hours.



>

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[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Electricity to charge the car is not separable from electricity run the lights and refrigerator.

I'm assuming your meaning to be that paying someone to not do something that consumes electricity is untenable, especially since the utility cannot verify if that specific thing not done, was in fact not done?

That said, some utilities offer dedicated meters for EV charging. I don't see a point in those considering the relative ease in having smart chargers that can share data and even control with utilities.

Originally Posted by redneck

.
Rates are a climate strategy...???

Rates should be adjusted in real time to reflect the actual cost to provide electricity, and those adjustments should be readily accessible and digestible to the average consumer. There's no point in having varying rates if the consumer isn't aware and isn't able to translate the rates into practical knowledge.

There was an announcement saying to not charge devices during peak utilization, as if that makes any difference at all. The grid doesn't care about the 5 watts a phone is consuming. It cares about heating/air conditioning, EV charging, water heating, and maybe laundry and dishwashing appliances.

It could be a so-called climate strategy if utilities incentivized consumers to use less electricity during peak events and to utilize excess renewable electricity when it's available. Perhaps EVs could be commanded to charge when excess wind power generation is available. Rather than curtailment, that excess might be put to use.

That said, I doubt this will make a meaningful difference to "climate strategy". If 100% of US vehicles were EVs, we wouldn't be able to measure the "good" done to the "global climate". It's still worth pursuing efficiency though, primarily to make the best use of resources. Nobody should be expecting the oceans to recede though.

Originally Posted by falkin42

Charge it whenever you want but if you do it during certain times you get a bonus. What's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with reflecting the true cost to deliver a vital utility.

No one is forcing anyone to buy an ev, but if you do you get a bonus. What's wrong with that?

What is wrong with distorting the true cost of a non-vital consumer good at taxpayer expense?

To provide a reasonable response to the rhetorical question, it would be necessary to establish that a credible study was conducted to evaluate the pros and cons of such a massive subsidy. It would need to show what environmental benefit would arise by achieving 2% of EV sales penetration by forking over the $7,500-$10,000 per EV sold, with the vast majority of those proceeds funneling into auto manufacturers pockets. The manufacturers adhere to the law of supply and demand, which is price. When more demand is created through artificially discounting the cost (subsidy), they raise the price. This is evident by the fact that that the Chevy Bolt can be purchased for less now without subsidy than before factoring in $10k in subsidy. In other words, when the government stopped giving taxpayer money to wealthy people to purchase the vehicles, GM drastically reduced the price.

[falkin42]

GM also killed the Volt when its subsidies ran out, because it was no longer cost effective to keep selling.
I was mostly responding to the idea that governments have a variety of tools at their disposal to influence all manner of behavior, including behavior that can help or harm the rest of the world. That's all. The specifics require aggregate data that very few people have because it's very difficult to conduct those kinds of studies.
In the case of the electric car subsidy, there's also something to be said for an intangible benefit like normalizing the EV. Not impossible to measure for research, but not exactly quantifiable like "x% reduction in emissions" or the like.
I'm also reaching the limit of debate I can put forth. I should get to work.

One last thing, just because we can't fix everything doesn't mean we shouldn't fix anything. But that's trite, I know.

[freebeard]

Nobody should be expecting the oceans to recede.

Scott Adams says that 25% of people will agree to anything. Then there're the people who think the oceans slosh out of their basins on a regular basis.

Human-electric micromobility is in the near future.

[Hersbird]

I heard today an executive from our power company, Northwestern Energy, talking about the ability to handle this heatwave and our grid. She mentioned something about our giant coal fired plant, Colstrip, and how it is covering the demand that the Seattle/Portland areas are requiring right now. These are the areas that bought Colstrip's plants a few years back with the express purpose of shutting them down before their otherwise end of life. Luckily for them they had only gotten around to shutting down one of the plants so far so those coal powered A/C systems can keep pumping.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by falkin42

GM also killed the Volt when its subsidies ran out, because it was no longer cost effective to keep selling.

Nope. GM killed the Volt when they killed the Cruze. They both were killed 1st quarter 2019. They were the last cars on the D2XX platform.

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I heard today an executive from our power company, Northwestern Energy, talking about the ability to handle this heatwave and our grid. She mentioned something about our giant coal fired plant, Colstrip, and how it is covering the demand that the Seattle/Portland areas are requiring right now. These are the areas that bought Colstrip's plants a few years back with the express purpose of shutting them down before their otherwise end of life. Luckily for them they had only gotten around to shutting down one of the plants so far so those coal powered A/C systems can keep pumping.

This Colstrip?

"The cleanup is a massive undertaking for the waste ponds servicing what was until January 2020 a four-unit power plant. The pond complex for the coal-fired units involves nine waste ponds that have leaked roughly 200 million gallons of contaminated water into the ground every year for more than 30 years. One day’s leakage equals an Olympic-sized swimming pool’s worth of contaminants, including boron, sulfates, selenium and heavy metals. Combined with the Unit 3 and 4 ash ponds, the pollution complex spans 800 acres, with an estimated cleanup cost of $400 million to $700 million. Remediation is expected to take decades.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...me-top-story-1