How to Use Less Fuel (yet another HHO thread, lacking substantive evidence)

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by dcb

Also can we change the title of this thread if we arent going to kill it?

Changed. Debated the need for the comma. Works either way.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Changed. Debated the need for the comma. Works either way.

If nothing else, it should be grammatically correct. :thumb:

LOL.

Ok, I won't bring beer... I'll bring hot coffee and cocoa powder. I like a nice mocha anyway.

The difference between my offer of beer/coffee/etc and your promise of better MPG's through installing a $700 kit-o-crap is that if you don't like my coffee, you can just spit it out. What happens when your customers actually test your product and don't see any gains? How do you explain yourself then?

What company did you buy your HHO kit from? Are they licensed and registered in DC/whatever state they hail from? Is the kit price $700 plus tax, or including tax? Have they been registered and tested by the EPA so as to have governmental backing in their claims of MPG increases?

Did you install the system sometime between March and May?

(Answer that one seriously. I'm going on the premise that your 13% increase in fuel economy is based on the weather and stronger "summer blend" fuels.)

[jedi_sol]

My HHO thingy didnt give me any FE gains (A-B-A testing). From my other car forum:

*update 2/12/2010*
Installed this nice little MPG gauge courtesy of Ecomodder.com

MPGuino - EcoModder

to give me instantaneous results. It measures instant mpgs, trip mpg, and tank mpg. For the sake of this test, I will use the trip mpg reading on each direction, then reset.

To measure ambient temperature, i used this tool:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93983

To keep driving style consistent, i used a vacuum gauge to show how hard the engine is working. For the sake of this test, i accelerated using 15in and shifted gears at 3500rpm until i reached 50mph, then set the cruise control.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98482

Location: found an empty 1.5mile long stretch of backroad highway so there was no traffic interference. The first direction was a slight uphill grade (lower number), the returning direction was mostly a downhill coast (higher number). And then i took the average of the two.

Here are the results:
Time of day 12:30pm - 1:30 pm
Ambient Temperature 75*F
A = all stock
B = Electrolyzer only
A = all stock

A1 - 22.56mpg - 55.94mpg = 39.25 (avg)
A2 - 22.46mpg - 54.45mpg = 38.45 (avg)
A3 - 21.78mpg - 54.83mpg = 38.30 (avg)

B1 - 22.64mpg - 55.55mpg = 39.09 (avg)
B2 - 21.88mpg - 55.20mpg = 38.54 (avg)
B3 - 22.06mpg - 54.35mpg = 38.20 (avg)

A4 - 21.74mpg - 53.30mpg = 37.52 (avg)

A averages = 38.38mpg
B averages = 38.61mpg

0.6% increase = NOT WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT!

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Originally Posted by jedi_sol

0.6% increase = NOT WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT!

How much HHO, with any controller, at what amperage, and what size engine?

I am a realistic believer in HHO, and I'm glad you posted this. Many people here understand the conservation on energy, so assume this would only harm mileage, so you show that it does nothing is a good step. Also many people selling HHO stuff claim BS numbers like 35% improvements, or even 200%. With a really good set up some improvements can really be made, but very small ones, and with a really good setup (up to 15%, but more likely 2%).
I tell many people who are considering using HHO to just add some acetone to there fuel. It will improve the same inefficiency, without the draw on the alternator, and for a lot less time and money.

[dcb]

have you tried fuel magnets?

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Originally Posted by dcb

have you tried fuel magnets?

ha ha ha, no, the voodoo doll hanging form my rear-view polarizes my fuel, or whatever that thing claimed to do...

[jedi_sol]

Originally Posted by Dr. Jerryrigger

How much HHO, with any controller, at what amperage, and what size engine?

I basically built this system: http://xenon-lys.com/images/water4gas400x400.jpg

Don't worry, I didnt buy it off any HHO website, I just bought all the parts from the local Home Depot and i downloaded the plans off of p2p sharing sites.

No, did not use a controller, figuring i that i dont want to dump lots of money into this for it not to work. Even the Water4Gas manual was claiming 20% increase on just the use of the Electrolyzer alone, so if that showed any decent improvement, then i might consider investing into a controller.

Amps? Not sure, whatever that thing above is supposed to create.

Engine size is 1.8L DOHC VTEC from an Acura Integra GSR

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Water for Gas is the most well know scam HHO co. IMO. That is one of the crappiest cells available (but cheapest to build at home). I'm actually amazed you didn't loose FE running it, but they don't draw much electricity.
If anyone is looking for a good cell design look at dry cells. Water splits into HHO at 1.23V (with enough KOH to make it conductive).Any voltage above this will produce heat, so cells working at 14V are mostly steam machines. You need a little more voltage than 1.23 as the electrodes have some resistance, so a good cell works on about 2V. The electrodes used are plates of stainless steel (316L is best), or better yet nickle (but much more expensive), and for some reason some people use titanium. To get the ~14V to the more useful 2V the plates are stacked with a little water between each, and the + and - are connected to only the outer two plates so you have say: + N N N N N N - (N are neutral plates). This way the 14V will be divided by the 7 gaps and give 2V to each. This stack is sealed and looks something like this:

credit to Zipster of HHOfourms, this is a photo of his cell, used here with out permission, but I think he wouldn't mind

[Phantom]

Just wanted to say ^^^^^ neat!

[Christ]

I'd chance a guess to say that's a vent on the top for the output, but where is the inlet? I presume that thing isn't big enough to support more than a few mins worth of use on just it's internal volume, eh?