How to Use Less Fuel (yet another HHO thread, lacking substantive evidence)

[ITGuy]

The assertion has been supported.

My mom's 1995 Camry has an HHO booster installed. So is my dad's 1996 Accord. My office mates 2006 Corolla has one.

[Baggage Handler #2]

Originally Posted by ITGuy

The assertion has been supported.

...

You won't mind if I ask "how?"


A difference between science and scams is in the discipline of test and documentation. So far, the only support I've seen is "it works because I know people who have it installed and they can feel it." That's far from compelling. It actually looks kinda bad.

[NachtRitter]

Y'all do realize there will be no end to this thread if y'all keep it up, right? ITGuy (and any other cohorts) will continue to be slippery as eels, making circular arguments without any substance, and in the end, no one's mind will be changed. Save your blood pressure and go talk about other more useful things.

"Move along... there's nothing to see here... "

[Christ]

I'm just asking that this thread be closed/locked. It serves no purpose, and has no meaningful information or debate contained within. Further, any lurker or newbie to the forum who might happen to read this thread will more than likely get the wrong idea about this forum. I know I would.

[mwebb]

from these simple test results ;
i make the claim that with the snorkel removed from the air filter so that the air is drawn from under the hood
FE is improved about 1 to2% at 37f driving west on the "test course"

anyone who has a mind to may review my simple test results and say
this is a good idea or this is bad idea or my test results are no good because of this or that , based on what they may see here .

other than to openly admit that their product does not improve FE , ITG and GFB have posted no test results
imho
if you follow their blarney , it will be at your own peril

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by ITGuy

The alternator spins all the time when the engine is running ... whether at 0% duty cycle or 100% duty cycle ... the charge controller determines whether charging happens or not. An alternator spinning at less 100% duty cycle is wasting fossil fuel energy. This explains why efficient HHO boosters installed on my car, two family members and an office mate noticed extra power.

Spins, yes. But you are aware that it is much much more difficult to spin an alt that is actively charging, right? An alt that is providing no power is pretty much just another pulley the belt goes around. There's some parasitic loss, but not a lot.

For your acquaintances to notice extra power does not speak to fuel efficiency at all. I don't remember where I read it, but as I understand it the electrolysis of water into HHO is really not very efficient at all, highest number I recall associated with it being 70% efficient. Considering a good charging system will get as much as 90% of its electricity into the battery, and then get 90% back out again, your fuel burn for HHO vs. fuel burn for an equivalent value of amp-hrs in the battery is a net loss.

Does the HHO system make your car feel more powerful? That's difficult to determine. You're using a seat of the pants testing method, and any psychologist will tell you that expected results will be favored in a subjective test. Get the people out of the car and put it on a dyno. It may actually be delivering more power. But the question is whether it's actually doing that while using the same amount or less fuel, and that I sincerely doubt. It would require a violation of physics, and I don't think you have the proper permits for that.

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

Y'all do realize there will be no end to this thread if y'all keep it up, right? ITGuy (and any other cohorts) will continue to be slippery as eels, making circular arguments without any substance, and in the end, no one's mind will be changed. Save your blood pressure and go talk about other more useful things.

"Move along... there's nothing to see here... "

It's cheap entertainment. For blood pressure elevation, I watch Fox News.

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by ITGuy

The assertion has been supported.

My mom's 1995 Camry has an HHO booster installed. So is my dad's 1996 Accord. My office mates 2006 Corolla has one.

This does not support the assertion. In classic Internet fashion, "pics or it didn't happen." And even then, the pictures only support your claim of the installations.

No, to support the assertions we need to see independent third-party testing that shows a statistically significant improvement in the fuel efficiency of those cars. Unfortunately, here's where you start backpedaling and changing your claims.

I haven't made any changes to my vehicle, but it gets way better mileage than it used to - just look at my performance badge on this message. All I've done is change how I drive it. Your acquaintances have probably made some changes of their own, consciously or not. It will yield tremendous results, but they'll mistakenly attribute those improvements to your electric snake oil machine under the hood.

Do yourself a favor - skip the HHO, raise the pressure in your tires, dump all the junk out of the trunk. Then you'll be able to point directly to very immediate, real-world improvements and real-world causative factors that led to the improvements. And no one here will argue endlessly with you about how ridiculous your claims are.

[ITGuy]

I have met a few people online who try to hide behind "technical" tools and forget the bigger picture that there is no other way forward but to get out of fossil fuels and start using alternative energy sources like Hydrogen. Even though you try to scare people away from Hydrogen use it is still a fact, for me and a few close family members and friends, that the right amount of HHO increases power. These friends are IT consultants and computer professionals who drive their cars with HHO boosters on a daily basis.

[Phantom]

Have one of them that is running the HHO and go the the track run 3 1/4mi average the time and then do the same with the hho on.