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Old 02-14-2011, 10:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The world was once flat.
The sun circled the earth.
Man would never fly.
and
Space travel???
Like that will ever happen...

When it comes to science, something is only impossible until it's not.

I neither endorse or condemn the video and link posted. It was just food for thought.

When one closes their mind to new ideas they also close the door to new opportunities.

Besides you and the others really don't want this thread to end.
You'd miss it...

Just make a new catagory.

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Old 02-14-2011, 10:36 PM   #22 (permalink)
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A perpetual motion machine should never need a battery to operate. That thing should have taken off with no coaxing whatsoever, once it was put together.

What is it with these HHO believers, anyway? They defend their perpetual motion beliefs with this "earth was flat, sun circled the earth, flight was impossible, spaceflight was impossible" tripe, and then when you bring science and engineering to debunk these HHO claims, they use feelings.

Some things are just impossible. People cannot just flap their bare arms and fly around the Earth. No amount of wishful thinking will change that. Similarly, a perpetual motion machine cannot be built. That goes for HHO contraptions.
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I didn't say I was a believer.

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Old 02-14-2011, 11:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm a big believer in some kinda contraption being built someday which will provide endless cheap clean energy for us, we'll put a cup of water in our cars for fuel, and drive (or fly) for 300,000 miles. But, this will be done on the atomic level, not with chemistry. The Mr. Fusion in the "Back to the Future" movie is the dream I'm hoping to see come true. I delight in knowing that the LHC in Switzerland is going to start peeling back the layers of mystery regarding the true nature of matter, gravity and particle physics. That is where our future lies, not on a You Tube video...(Unless of course, the folks at CERN decide You Tube is their preferred outlet to present their findings....anything is possible) I'm not takin a crap on yer pancakes because I'm mean, I'm doing it because I'm educated enough, and smart enough, to recognize utter bull crap when I see it. I will not sit by and let it go unchallenged.

People used to drink Radium for good health, they'd spill out a quart of blood to cure their ills, there is an endless amount of stupid things people did using pseudo-science to support their claims and deeds. They were still stupid regardless of their good intentions.

HHO generation is a blatant kick in the crotch of known scientific principles, the energy required to separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water molecules is greater than the energy released by putting them back together. And even if it were the same, efficiency losses would absolutely kill you; you would need to get 3 to 5 times the energy out of the combustion of the hydrogen to get to a point where it could act as an energy source. As I said early on, the numbers do not add up when you look at the basic nature of what HHO claims to accomplish.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:35 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck View Post
The world was once flat.
The sun circled the earth.
Man would never fly.
and
Space travel???
Like that will ever happen...
Yeah and it was science, not wishful thinking that enabled all this. Our entire technological civilization is here because of this. We'd still be in the dark ages if we chased dead end ideas that just weren't real.

Science works, *****es.

Last edited by cfg83; 02-16-2011 at 02:10 AM.. Reason: fix quote
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:35 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I didn't say I was a believer.

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And if belief is required, invariably it's a scam.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:58 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t vago View Post
You just lost me there. Good luck making your perpetual machine work.
on anything else i'd say go with the science but this is something that has to be done personally to be proven i will admit that if your trying to seperate hydrogen and oxygen using electrolysis then ya it's going to take more energy then you'll get back from burning it BUT if you forget about seperating the two then it's easier to make lots of hydrogen and oxygen from it and also you have to have a electrolizer in the water to allow easier power transfer through the water. take like 5 plates put them 1/8 of an inch apart in sequence and put about 1/2 a cup baking soda to 1 gallon destilled water then put power to the outer plates and see how much hydrogen and oxygen is created, i'm sure it's not that much to get 5 plates and test it so you have your own proof weather it works or not. I got my proof and your not going to change my mind cause i've done it first hand!!!!!!!
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:52 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stovie View Post
on anything else i'd say go with the science but this is something that has to be done personally to be proven i will admit that if your trying to seperate hydrogen and oxygen using electrolysis then ya it's going to take more energy then you'll get back from burning it BUT if you forget about seperating the two then it's easier to make lots of hydrogen and oxygen from it and also you have to have a electrolizer in the water to allow easier power transfer through the water. take like 5 plates put them 1/8 of an inch apart in sequence and put about 1/2 a cup baking soda to 1 gallon destilled water then put power to the outer plates and see how much hydrogen and oxygen is created, i'm sure it's not that much to get 5 plates and test it so you have your own proof weather it works or not. I got my proof and your not going to change my mind cause i've done it first hand!!!!!!!
For some reason, I read that entire post in the voice of Pillz-E of Ill Will Press fame. I dunno, there's something quixotic about gigantic run-on sentences mixed in with pseudo-science...
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:26 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Stovieeeeeee....Stovieee......STOVIE! No one in here has denied the fact that you can generate hydrogen & oxygen with electricity. The reason you need baking soda is because pure water does not conduct electricity worth a dam. You are using electrolysis; it isn't some "Easier way" that isn't electrolysis. Again, even though it seems like you're cranking out a crap load of gas, it is in fact a very insignificant amount. The energy density of hydrogen at low pressures is very low, and the oxygen being created does not contribute much either since 21% of the atmosphere is oxygen.

How long does it take before you need to add more water to your cell? My understanding is that it takes hours. Let’s say 3 and in that time you use up a pint of water. Well, my Honda getting 35 MPG Hwy at 70mph will use 6 gallons of gasoline in that 3 hours. Keep in mind that Gasoline is Hydrogen and Carbon primarily. So when we burn gasoline with the oxygen in the air, we generate a bunch of CO2 & CO gas, plus we have H2O being created. If we condensed the H2O going out the tail pipe, we'd see we get about 1 gallon of water for every gallon of gasoline we burn. So in essence, if you were to use up 1 pint of water over 3 hours, and use that gas to contribute to the combustion cycle, you would be adding 1 part of fuel in 48 (48 pints are in 6 gallons) to the system with your gas generator. That's roughly 2%. There isn't some voodoo thing going on like a catalytic reaction because the hydrogen from you gas generator is somehow better than the hydrogen locked up in the gasoline. You are at best adding a tiny amount of fuel to the system, and it is a real energy drain to create the fuel. You aren't using waste energy, you create a load on the alternator, which makes the engine have to produce more power, which needs more fuel, so any small gain you my achieve with your small additional hydrogen contribution, gets wiped out. (BTW, I think I’m being very generous when I say you disassociate a pint of water in 3 hours)

This is why I say the numbers don't add up. If they did, we'd all certainly be using it because if it works well on a small scale, it would work great on a large scale. All of mankind’s energy needs would be solved if HHO generators produced more energy than they consumed, everything would run on it, ships, trains, power plants, cars, boats, bulldozers and trolley cars. It would be swell indeed. But it doesn't, so we don't. Cold hard facts just cannot be overcome by deceptive marketing or wishful thinking. Spend your time and energy adding a boat tail to your vehicle, or making sure your tires are overinflated.
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:48 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stovie View Post
on anything else i'd say go with the science but this is something that has to be done personally to be proven
You don't need to do everything again yourself.
If you're smart, you learn from the mistakes of others.
If you're not so smart, well, you make these mistakes again yourself

Quote:
i will admit that if your trying to seperate hydrogen and oxygen using electrolysis then ya it's going to take more energy then you'll get back from burning it BUT if you forget about seperating the two then it's easier to make lots of hydrogen and oxygen from it
If you don't separate H2 and O2 in your hydrogen generator, what elso do you think is happening in there ???

I take it you haven't had scientific education ? Chemistry ? Physics ?

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