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Old 05-14-2020, 05:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
. How many people were right on the verge of buying an EV, then backed out because of taxes?
$665 Title + registration made up my mind for me, annual gas is only $200
I went back to my Insight from a Volt
and turned down the Bolt I had scoped out, considering what is going on it was a good move.

I know a couple dozen folks who have gone “back to gas”
It’s just not worth the extra fee on a low range BEV from a financial perspective, then add in insurance is double to triple and it turns people off from the little $3500 gas savers, especially when it’s a second car.

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Old 05-14-2020, 07:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
How are hybrids overtaxed? Is there evidence that hybrid owners are paying more in taxes than their inefficient counterparts?

As I've consistently maintained, it was a dumb idea from the beginning to fund critical infrastructure with price per gallon taxes. It should be budgeted and collected like any other government department.

Vehicle registration should recover only the amount needed to keep a record of who owns what. That should be, what, $1 per year?
Vehicle registration should also be budgeted out of the general fund too. All government spending should be paid out of the general fund with taxes raise by a simple progressive income tax. Get of the hodgepodge of other taxes and fees.


If you are going to try to fund roads with a specific tax then Oregon's fee per mile system makes the most sense. People that use the roads pay more, people that uses them less pay less.

Oregon didn't just increase registration fees for EVs they raised them on a sliding scale for all cars based on fuel economy. The new cost is:

0 to 19 miles per gallon = $62 per year.
20 and 39 miles per gallon = $66 per year
40 or more miles per gallon = $76 per year
EVs = $153 per year.

If you sign up for OReGO then registration is $43 per year. OreGo is Oregon's fee per mile system that charges no gas tax but instead charges $0.018 per mile.
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Old 05-14-2020, 07:28 PM   #23 (permalink)
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As to ICE / BEV Parity:

Mini Signature EV = $29,900 - $7,500 Fed - $2,500 OR = $19,900
Mini Signature ICE = $26,400

The EV is $6,500 less to buy and way cheaper to operate.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:13 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
$665 Title + registration made up my mind for me, annual gas is only $200
I went back to my Insight from a Volt
and turned down the Bolt I had scoped out, considering what is going on it was a good move.

I know a couple dozen folks who have gone “back to gas”
It’s just not worth the extra fee on a low range BEV from a financial perspective, then add in insurance is double to triple and it turns people off from the little $3500 gas savers, especially when it’s a second car.
As long as stuff pretty much stays like it is I hope to never go back to gas.
The only way I would go back to a straight oil or gas burner is if the state pushed me into that decision.
I'm not paying hundreds of dollars extra to pretend like my poop doesn't stink.
Like the hybrid episode of South park.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:58 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
How are hybrids overtaxed?
Considering nearly every other country has lower taxes for hybrids, while some places in the U.S. charge them an extra tax seemingly to compensate for a lower revenue on fuel taxation, this is somewhat overtaxed.
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:48 AM   #26 (permalink)
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When I ask how hybrids are overtaxed, I'm not asking in comparison to other countries, I'm asking in comparison to the utilization of public infrastructure with respect to the amount of funds paid to maintain that infrastructure here in the US, or specifically in each state.

As I've maintained, it doesn't matter who's actually doing the driving to benefit society, and therefore infrastructure should be funded independent of the drivers. If a friend comes over to visit, we both benefit, but only the friend pays the tax. The only people with a legitimate claim to not benefit from road infrastructure are those that have zero interaction with society at all.
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Old 05-15-2020, 09:47 AM   #27 (permalink)
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So here's a benefit we realized with this current "pandemic". We can go where we need and don't need to worry about stopping to get gas and presenting another potential exposure risk.
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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BEV @ 30 mpg

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Originally Posted by roosterk0031 View Post
Iowa $130 BEV fee is equal to the tax on about 430 gallons of gas(state taxes only) , 12,900 miles at 30 mpg.
Extortion.I'd find the voting record on that one,round up those who voted 'aye',march 'em out of their offices,and change the locks on the doors.
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Suggesting,very simplistically,that at least in the case of the Kona,the price of a BEV is ultimately no different than an equivalent ICE variant.
Quote:
I understand the point.What I was hoping to illustrate,was,in looking at life-cycle cost,The BEV would ultimately cost no more.
The problem I saw corrected itself. You have the power to go back and edit the Original Post.

I take redpoint5's point
Quote:
When I ask how hybrids are overtaxed, I'm not asking in comparison to other countries, I'm asking in comparison to the utilization of public infrastructure with respect to the amount of funds paid to maintain that infrastructure here in the US, or specifically in each state.
Things change:
hardware.slashdot.org: Tesla's Secret Batteries Aim To Rework the Math For Electric Cars and the Grid (reuters.com)
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:32 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksa8907 View Post
So here's a benefit we realized with this current "pandemic". We can go where we need and don't need to worry about stopping to get gas and presenting another potential exposure risk.
Only if you have a plug in/full EV AND have enough range to get where you are going, which you probably do. Probably. And a house with charging capabilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
MOTOR TREND reported on a comparison between the Hyundai Kona 1,6T (ICE) model,and the Kona Electric.
*The 1.6T is $26,995.
*The Electric is $38,285.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*At a 12-year vehicle life-span, 13,000 miles/year,and 2020 dollar-adjusted fuel and electricity pricing,and ignoring all other operating costs:
*The 1.6T costs $46,102 to own and operate.
*The Electric costs $ 46,127 to own and operate.
*A $25 dollar difference overall.

*Production cost of the Kona Electric is $10.174/pound
*Production cost of the Nissan LEAF Plus SL is $11.304/pound
*Production cost of the Tesla Model 3,Standard Range Plus is $ 11.452/pound
*Production cost of the Honda Civic Type R is $ 11.467/pound
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy! Those are some expensive pistons!
Very important to actually list those gas prices, are those california prices, or rest of the country prices? Pre or current pandemic prices? And of course, it is difficult to figure out what will last how long, but the electric will likely need a new battery around the 10-12 year mark.

The 1.6T kona limited is $8.87 per pound. I can see comparing the Type R to the model 3, but not sure why you didn't include the gas too.


HOLY ****

A new battery for the 2019 Kona is THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

https://www.hyundaioempartsdirect.co...ystem--battery

For better or for worse, I predict a lot of these electric cars will have much shorter cradle to grave lifespans than a typical gas/hybrid. More new technology on the road, sure, but at what point is short life more wasteful than longer life lower efficiency?

I used to see a TON of G1 nissan leaves around, almost none of them out and about now, not sure where they went.

Parts list is kind of vague, but it appears that a 2011 leaf battery is $5790.

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