Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-02-2014, 01:36 PM   #151 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrx View Post
I did some deeper analysis of the build, mainly the tuning of their project. the results are they killed 5-10 mpg by switching to a programmable ECU.

The hondata system used cannot read the NGK O2 sensor, and instead uses a bosch style O2. This lowers the readable AFR range from 27.56 to 19.5, effectively killing the lean burn capability.
This system cannot control the EGR system either, increasing pumping losses.
That's good sleuthing. Thanks.

__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-02-2014, 02:37 PM   #152 (permalink)
Too busy for gas stations
 
Superfuelgero's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The intersection of TN/MS/AL
Posts: 460

Turtle - '92 Honda Civic Vx
Team Honda
90 day: 67.09 mpg (US)

Rolla - '10 Toyota Corolla Le

Beast - '91 Chevy V2500

Bus - '01 VW Eurovan MV

Speed - '93 Harley bored and storked Harley w/ turbo/ nitrous
90 day: 53.09 mpg (US)

Cal - '68 Ford Mustang GT/CS
Thanks: 87
Thanked 176 Times in 114 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownugly View Post
Aftermarket ecus/ tuning softwares do have the capabilities for really lean maps but if it's limited to the 02 sensor range then yea they were better off with the p07. They really don't need the egr but without it the nox level will be really high.
Still looking for a ECU to take over. Would like it to have COP, preheat control and electronic throttle control too though. Doubt I'll be able to retain the shift light (hondata lost that also).

from: http://enduse.lbl.gov/Info/Honda.pdf
Also from same: "EGR also improves fueleconomy by using energy from the waste stream. However, lean burn is more efficient than EGR." Every little bit...
__________________
Shooting for 600 miles of range at 65-70 mph out of a vx.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Superfuelgero For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (02-02-2014)
Old 02-02-2014, 02:55 PM   #153 (permalink)
Burn lean and prosper\\//
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: scranton pa
Posts: 576

VLX - '93 Honda Civic VLX
Team Honda
90 day: 51.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 55
Thanked 65 Times in 54 Posts
Talk to pgfpro. Sounds like mega squirt might be your closest bet. I've no experience with it but I know the versatility of it is awesome.

What benefit would the throttle control offer?
__________________
Burn lean and prosper \\ //
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 02:59 PM   #154 (permalink)
Burn lean and prosper\\//
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: scranton pa
Posts: 576

VLX - '93 Honda Civic VLX
Team Honda
90 day: 51.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 55
Thanked 65 Times in 54 Posts
Also I don't see the stpck vx shift light being helpful, but If you had a programmable ecu that was set by you to your specific shift points for optimum mpg that would be awesome!!!
__________________
Burn lean and prosper \\ //
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 03:31 PM   #155 (permalink)
Too busy for gas stations
 
Superfuelgero's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The intersection of TN/MS/AL
Posts: 460

Turtle - '92 Honda Civic Vx
Team Honda
90 day: 67.09 mpg (US)

Rolla - '10 Toyota Corolla Le

Beast - '91 Chevy V2500

Bus - '01 VW Eurovan MV

Speed - '93 Harley bored and storked Harley w/ turbo/ nitrous
90 day: 53.09 mpg (US)

Cal - '68 Ford Mustang GT/CS
Thanks: 87
Thanked 176 Times in 114 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownugly View Post
Talk to pgfpro. Sounds like mega squirt might be your closest bet. I've no experience with it but I know the versatility of it is awesome.

What benefit would the throttle control offer?
I've done megasquirt before. Its good, but its not enough outputs.

Throttle control is for more of a large bypass/ diverter.
1)WOT on DFCO, useful for times where time is too short for a full engine kill. 2)Also as a mixing valve, to control the amount of HAI (or regenerator) in proportion to load and throttle demanded (inverse proportion).
__________________
Shooting for 600 miles of range at 65-70 mph out of a vx.


Last edited by Superfuelgero; 02-02-2014 at 03:40 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 03:50 PM   #156 (permalink)
A madman
 
brucey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 1,018

Pequod - '17 Subaru Outback
90 day: 22.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 73
Thanked 183 Times in 98 Posts
Send a message via AIM to brucey
I always thought car mods were kind of interesting in so far as cost associated.

Dropping 5,000 to 10,000 dollars on a turbo kit? a blown motor? a complete motor swap? A limited slip differential? A sway bar kit? Even the small stuff like a cold air intake can run several hundred dollars.

"Awesome dude, your car is really fast."

Dropping 1k EACH for an axle swap? 1k+ For a transfer case swap or re-gear? 500$ for each 38" tire? Offroad lamps? Winches? skid plates? easily adding 5 digits worth of cost on top of a vehicle that is probably over 5 digits to begin with?

"Awesome dude, your daily driver can climb a vertical cliff."

Lifting a sedan, just to be able to put 20" chrome wheels on it? Several thousand dollars.
Candy paint? Chameleon paint? Several thousand dollars as well.

"Awesome dude. Your car looks like a hot wheels toy."

Spend 100$ on eco mods, and have scientific data that backs up the idea/theory they work on. and the mod itself will more than likely pay for itself if you plan to keep the vehicle for any amount of time? (I'm actually guilty of not caring about pay back time on eco-mods, but most others here are not.)

"Uhhh, that's weird. Why didn't you just buy a Prius?"
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to brucey For This Useful Post:
PaleMelanesian (02-03-2014), UltArc (02-02-2014)
Old 02-02-2014, 04:56 PM   #157 (permalink)
Burn lean and prosper\\//
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: scranton pa
Posts: 576

VLX - '93 Honda Civic VLX
Team Honda
90 day: 51.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 55
Thanked 65 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrx View Post
Throttle control is for more of a large bypass/ diverter.
1)WOT on DFCO, useful for times where time is too short for a full engine kill. 2)Also as a mixing valve, to control the amount of HAI (or regenerator) in proportion to load and throttle demanded (inverse proportion).
Elaborate more on that. Do you mean the ecu Puts the throttle blade a WOT and cuts injector pulse instead of closed throttle blade? 80s ford fuel injection theory used that but for safety not efficiency. Of course that was direct linkage.

And is HAI hot air intake? Used as a variable displacement sort of thing?

I love finding out about what small guys can do with different ecus and tuning. With those requirements it sounds like it would be hard to find an ecu that could accomodate. Mostly for the throttle control and egr tuning. Sounds easier to go with Neptune/ crome. But again I have limited knowledge of this stuff.
__________________
Burn lean and prosper \\ //

Last edited by slownugly; 02-02-2014 at 05:03 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 05:19 PM   #158 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 60

Eye catcher - '14 Ford Mustang GT
90 day: 17.39 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucey View Post
I always thought car mods were kind of interesting in so far as cost associated.

Dropping 5,000 to 10,000 dollars on a turbo kit? a blown motor? a complete motor swap? A limited slip differential? A sway bar kit? Even the small stuff like a cold air intake can run several hundred dollars.

"Awesome dude, your car is really fast."

Dropping 1k EACH for an axle swap? 1k+ For a transfer case swap or re-gear? 500$ for each 38" tire? Offroad lamps? Winches? skid plates? easily adding 5 digits worth of cost on top of a vehicle that is probably over 5 digits to begin with?

"Awesome dude, your daily driver can climb a vertical cliff."

Lifting a sedan, just to be able to put 20" chrome wheels on it? Several thousand dollars.
Candy paint? Chameleon paint? Several thousand dollars as well.

"Awesome dude. Your car looks like a hot wheels toy."

Spend 100$ on eco mods, and have scientific data that backs up the idea/theory they work on. and the mod itself will more than likely pay for itself if you plan to keep the vehicle for any amount of time? (I'm actually guilty of not caring about pay back time on eco-mods, but most others here are not.)

"Uhhh, that's weird. Why didn't you just buy a Prius?"
If you spend over $5k on a turbo kit you're mostly insane. But most of the mods you listed ad to the everyday enjoyment of the vehicle. Eco mods don't really do that except help the bank account.

If I did a supercharger on my stang, do I really need almost 700 hp on stock motor? No, but it's sure as hell fun!

Well except the wheels, but most cars now a days don't need lifts to fit 20" wheels. It's all in the tire size
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 05:23 PM   #159 (permalink)
In Lean Burn Mode
 
pgfpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,528

MisFit Talon - '91 Eagle Talon TSi
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 39.03 mpg (US)

Warlock - '71 Chevy Camaro

Fe Eclipse - '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
Thanks: 1,243
Thanked 581 Times in 373 Posts
On my last two Honda's I ran Neptune with a P28 ecu. I used a modified
PLX 300 wideband controller with a NGK O2 sensor. You can run a AFX controller also with Neptune that is NGK wide-band user friendly.

With Neptune you can turn the check engine light into a shift light also.
The EGR could be controlled by the Neptune also.
There are a lot of input/output user defined applications with Neptune also.
The downside is a PO7 ecu won't work with Neptune.

I never ran my Honda's in closed loop. I found you can run much cleaner with open loop verse closed loop at very-lean burn. I don't even understand why Import Tuner choose to run in closed loop??? A good tuned map with low extrapolated outer cell values is always a better way to go. IMO

The next best thing IMO would be a Motech system. But now were talking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
__________________
Pressure Gradient Force
The Positive Side of the Number Line

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pgfpro For This Useful Post:
Superfuelgero (02-03-2014)
Old 02-02-2014, 05:39 PM   #160 (permalink)
A madman
 
brucey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 1,018

Pequod - '17 Subaru Outback
90 day: 22.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 73
Thanked 183 Times in 98 Posts
Send a message via AIM to brucey
Quote:
Originally Posted by gk_ghig14 View Post
If you spend over $5k on a turbo kit you're mostly insane.
2010-2014 Mustang Supercharger Kits & Accessories | AmericanMuscle.com - Free Shipping!

We're all mostly insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gk_ghig14 View Post
But most of the mods you listed ad to the everyday enjoyment of the vehicle. Eco mods don't really do that except help the bank account.
So you're saying eco-modding isn't fun? I have a blast doing it and riding around on my

With a scan gauge, it can even become a mental/physical challenge and that alone is enough motivation.

"I CAN hit 35 on my daily commute if my put my mind to it."

Keeps my mind just as happy as

"I CAN hit a strike at bowling." or "I CAN hit all 25 of those skeet."

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to brucey For This Useful Post:
Arragonis (02-03-2014), some_other_dave (02-03-2014)
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
$$$, civic vx, fartcan muffler, import tuner, project sipper, ricer

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com