Import Tuner Magazine : Project Sipper ('92 Civic VX)

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by xntrx

I did some deeper analysis of the build, mainly the tuning of their project. the results are they killed 5-10 mpg by switching to a programmable ECU.

The hondata system used cannot read the NGK O2 sensor, and instead uses a bosch style O2. This lowers the readable AFR range from 27.56 to 19.5, effectively killing the lean burn capability.
This system cannot control the EGR system either, increasing pumping losses.

That's good sleuthing. Thanks.

[Superfuelgero]

Originally Posted by slownugly

Aftermarket ecus/ tuning softwares do have the capabilities for really lean maps but if it's limited to the 02 sensor range then yea they were better off with the p07. They really don't need the egr but without it the nox level will be really high.

Still looking for a ECU to take over. Would like it to have COP, preheat control and electronic throttle control too though. Doubt I'll be able to retain the shift light (hondata lost that also).

from: http://enduse.lbl.gov/Info/Honda.pdf
Also from same: "EGR also improves fueleconomy by using energy from the waste stream. However, lean burn is more efficient than EGR." Every little bit...

[slownugly]

Talk to pgfpro. Sounds like mega squirt might be your closest bet. I've no experience with it but I know the versatility of it is awesome.

What benefit would the throttle control offer?

[slownugly]

Also I don't see the stpck vx shift light being helpful, but If you had a programmable ecu that was set by you to your specific shift points for optimum mpg that would be awesome!!!

[Superfuelgero]

Originally Posted by slownugly

Talk to pgfpro. Sounds like mega squirt might be your closest bet. I've no experience with it but I know the versatility of it is awesome.

What benefit would the throttle control offer?

I've done megasquirt before. Its good, but its not enough outputs.

Throttle control is for more of a large bypass/ diverter.
1)WOT on DFCO, useful for times where time is too short for a full engine kill. 2)Also as a mixing valve, to control the amount of HAI (or regenerator) in proportion to load and throttle demanded (inverse proportion).

[brucey]

I always thought car mods were kind of interesting in so far as cost associated.

Dropping 5,000 to 10,000 dollars on a turbo kit? a blown motor? a complete motor swap? A limited slip differential? A sway bar kit? Even the small stuff like a cold air intake can run several hundred dollars.

"Awesome dude, your car is really fast."

Dropping 1k EACH for an axle swap? 1k+ For a transfer case swap or re-gear? 500$ for each 38" tire? Offroad lamps? Winches? skid plates? easily adding 5 digits worth of cost on top of a vehicle that is probably over 5 digits to begin with?

"Awesome dude, your daily driver can climb a vertical cliff."

Lifting a sedan, just to be able to put 20" chrome wheels on it? Several thousand dollars.
Candy paint? Chameleon paint? Several thousand dollars as well.

"Awesome dude. Your car looks like a hot wheels toy."

Spend 100$ on eco mods, and have scientific data that backs up the idea/theory they work on. and the mod itself will more than likely pay for itself if you plan to keep the vehicle for any amount of time? (I'm actually guilty of not caring about pay back time on eco-mods, but most others here are not.)

"Uhhh, that's weird. Why didn't you just buy a Prius?"

[slownugly]

Originally Posted by xntrx

Throttle control is for more of a large bypass/ diverter.
1)WOT on DFCO, useful for times where time is too short for a full engine kill. 2)Also as a mixing valve, to control the amount of HAI (or regenerator) in proportion to load and throttle demanded (inverse proportion).

Elaborate more on that. Do you mean the ecu Puts the throttle blade a WOT and cuts injector pulse instead of closed throttle blade? 80s ford fuel injection theory used that but for safety not efficiency. Of course that was direct linkage.

And is HAI hot air intake? Used as a variable displacement sort of thing?

I love finding out about what small guys can do with different ecus and tuning. With those requirements it sounds like it would be hard to find an ecu that could accomodate. Mostly for the throttle control and egr tuning. Sounds easier to go with Neptune/ crome. But again I have limited knowledge of this stuff.

[gk_ghig14]

Originally Posted by brucey

I always thought car mods were kind of interesting in so far as cost associated.

Dropping 5,000 to 10,000 dollars on a turbo kit? a blown motor? a complete motor swap? A limited slip differential? A sway bar kit? Even the small stuff like a cold air intake can run several hundred dollars.

"Awesome dude, your car is really fast."

Dropping 1k EACH for an axle swap? 1k+ For a transfer case swap or re-gear? 500$ for each 38" tire? Offroad lamps? Winches? skid plates? easily adding 5 digits worth of cost on top of a vehicle that is probably over 5 digits to begin with?

"Awesome dude, your daily driver can climb a vertical cliff."

Lifting a sedan, just to be able to put 20" chrome wheels on it? Several thousand dollars.
Candy paint? Chameleon paint? Several thousand dollars as well.

"Awesome dude. Your car looks like a hot wheels toy."

Spend 100$ on eco mods, and have scientific data that backs up the idea/theory they work on. and the mod itself will more than likely pay for itself if you plan to keep the vehicle for any amount of time? (I'm actually guilty of not caring about pay back time on eco-mods, but most others here are not.)

"Uhhh, that's weird. Why didn't you just buy a Prius?"

If you spend over $5k on a turbo kit you're mostly insane. But most of the mods you listed ad to the everyday enjoyment of the vehicle. Eco mods don't really do that except help the bank account.

If I did a supercharger on my stang, do I really need almost 700 hp on stock motor? No, but it's sure as hell fun!

Well except the wheels, but most cars now a days don't need lifts to fit 20" wheels. It's all in the tire size

[pgfpro]

On my last two Honda's I ran Neptune with a P28 ecu. I used a modified
PLX 300 wideband controller with a NGK O2 sensor. You can run a AFX controller also with Neptune that is NGK wide-band user friendly.

With Neptune you can turn the check engine light into a shift light also.
The EGR could be controlled by the Neptune also.
There are a lot of input/output user defined applications with Neptune also.
The downside is a PO7 ecu won't work with Neptune.

I never ran my Honda's in closed loop. I found you can run much cleaner with open loop verse closed loop at very-lean burn. I don't even understand why Import Tuner choose to run in closed loop??? A good tuned map with low extrapolated outer cell values is always a better way to go. IMO

The next best thing IMO would be a Motech system. But now were talking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[brucey]

Originally Posted by gk_ghig14

If you spend over $5k on a turbo kit you're mostly insane.

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We're all mostly insane.

Originally Posted by gk_ghig14

But most of the mods you listed ad to the everyday enjoyment of the vehicle. Eco mods don't really do that except help the bank account.

So you're saying eco-modding isn't fun? I have a blast doing it and riding around on my

With a scan gauge, it can even become a mental/physical challenge and that alone is enough motivation.

"I CAN hit 35 on my daily commute if my put my mind to it."

Keeps my mind just as happy as

"I CAN hit a strike at bowling." or "I CAN hit all 25 of those skeet."