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Old 01-24-2019, 05:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I was reading up on oil at 540 Rat's oil blog (https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/) and realized the 10W40 Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil I was using is rated at a very mediocre 65,553 PSI of shear resistance. So I drained it out(saved in milk jug for the lawnmower..) and put some 5W30 Mobil one advanced full synthetic oil in. This oil is rated for 117,799 PSI of shear resistance. MUCH BETTER! It also has the "evil" resource conserving tag on the bottom of the API label.





Guess what? No clutch slippage! Full throttle and high RPM, or full throttle in top gear, still no clutch slippage.

My 42T sprocket showed up, but I need another master link to install it, still waiting on that.

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Best trip in V6: 52.0
Best tank in V6: 46.0
Best tank in CBR: 61.3
Best tank in VFR: 62.5
Best tank in SV: 83.9

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Old 01-24-2019, 05:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You don't want that oil! That's standard automotive oil.

Clutch slippage isn't the issue, it's the lack of adequate ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus) that's the problem. Those levels (600ppm) are fine for a current auto engine with roller rockers, but not for a solid, non-roller, valvetrain like cycles use. You want around 1200ppm for a cycle engine. ZDDP is sacrificial and protects the cam and rocker faces (high pressure areas) from galling at times when flow is minimal - you want it.

Use a diesel oil like Rotella T5 or T6 - but NOT the new "Multi Vehicle" 5W-30 Rotella T6 - it has low ZDDP levels like regular auto oils.
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
You don't want that oil! That's standard automotive oil.

Clutch slippage isn't the issue, it's the lack of adequate ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus) that's the problem. Those levels (600ppm) are fine for a current auto engine with roller rockers, but not for a solid, non-roller, valvetrain like cycles use. You want around 1200ppm for a cycle engine. ZDDP is sacrificial and protects the cam and rocker faces (high pressure areas) from galling at times when flow is minimal - you want it.

Use a diesel oil like Rotella T5 or T6 - but NOT the new "Multi Vehicle" 5W-30 Rotella T6 - it has low ZDDP levels like regular auto oils.
If it works, then i'm paving the way towards proving that car oils work just fine in a bike. If it blows up(catastrophically), then i'm out $1000, which I can afford. Read the blog jkv, the guy covers the misconceptions around ZDDP and how it doesn't determine wear protection on its own. He gets pretty ranty, but its a good read and offers oil data that I have never seen anywhere else.

He also covers some testimonials as far as high ZDDP oils and occurences of engine failures, vs using high performing oils.
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Best trip in V6: 52.0
Best tank in V6: 46.0
Best tank in CBR: 61.3
Best tank in VFR: 62.5
Best tank in SV: 83.9

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Old 01-24-2019, 07:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daschicken View Post
If it works, then i'm paving the way towards proving that car oils work just fine in a bike. If it blows up(catastrophically), then i'm out $1000, which I can afford. Read the blog jkv, the guy covers the misconceptions around ZDDP and how it doesn't determine wear protection on its own. He gets pretty ranty, but its a good read and offers oil data that I have never seen anywhere else.

He also covers some testimonials as far as high ZDDP oils and occurences of engine failures, vs using high performing oils.
That's fine.

I didn't think there was any debate about the benefits of adequate ZDDP for a non-roller engine, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Why would you risk it? Just use Rotella T5 10W-30 or a 30-grade cycle oil like Motul.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My new rivet master link(s) showed up, so I could finally install the 42T rear sprocket that showed up a while ago. The sprocket setup is now 17/42. I took it for a test ride on the highway, and this thing is a friggin DREAM to ride at higher speeds! At an indicated 75 MPH it is running an indicated 4500 RPM. Again, indicated stuff here: A stock geared bike will show 4000 RPM at 53 MPH, my bike now shows 3000 RPM at 50 MPH.

Roll on performance in top gear is pretty abysmal below 50 MPH, but is just fine at 70. An acceptable smooth "idle" speed in 1st gear shows 9 MPH.
It doesn't like 6th gear below 38 MPH.

ACTUAL RPMs vs speed for this new gearing are as follows:

45 MPH: 2707
70 MPH: 4211





Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
Why would you risk it? Just use Rotella T5 10W-30 or a 30-grade cycle oil like Motul.
Motorcycle oil is very expensive, and generally has mediocre performance compared to car oils as far as shear resistance. We can assume we need to buy their expensive specific oil, or we can think outside the box a little. Maybe put some pressure on the oil companies to make better oil cheaper. I'm going to run this thing for a few thousand miles before swapping to the DL650 cams, so if any damage is going to occur, that is where it will show up.
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Best trip in V6: 52.0
Best tank in V6: 46.0
Best tank in CBR: 61.3
Best tank in VFR: 62.5
Best tank in SV: 83.9

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Old 01-28-2019, 10:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daschicken View Post
Motorcycle oil is very expensive, and generally has mediocre performance compared to car oils as far as shear resistance. We can assume we need to buy their expensive specific oil, or we can think outside the box a little. Maybe put some pressure on the oil companies to make better oil cheaper. I'm going to run this thing for a few thousand miles before swapping to the DL650 cams, so if any damage is going to occur, that is where it will show up.
Just run a diesel oil if motorcycle-specific oil is too expensive.

T6 does shear down, but you want a lower viscosity oil anyway. Shear doesn't cause engine damage. Low ZDDP levels cause damage. I don't run T6 in my SV because the shifting isn't as smooth after the oil shears. The cost of 3 quarts of oil is not a major concern for me.

As far as the clutch not slipping, maybe it will and maybe it won't, but it takes time for the Moly to build-up on the clutch plates and cause slipping.

Want 15 - 20% better highway mileage? Cruise closer to 65 than 75.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:56 AM   #17 (permalink)
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My Ecomodder stickers showed up! One set went without incident, the other had some of the adhesive paper tear and threaten to leave behind the paper, but I approached from another angle and it came off cleanly.



Looking good!


I just have to remember not to scrape this one off when de-icing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
Just run a diesel oil if motorcycle-specific oil is too expensive.

T6 does shear down, but you want a lower viscosity oil anyway. Shear doesn't cause engine damage. Low ZDDP levels cause damage. I don't run T6 in my SV because the shifting isn't as smooth after the oil shears. The cost of 3 quarts of oil is not a major concern for me.

As far as the clutch not slipping, maybe it will and maybe it won't, but it takes time for the Moly to build-up on the clutch plates and cause slipping.

Want 15 - 20% better highway mileage? Cruise closer to 65 than 75.
I was referring to shear as the ability of the oil to keep metal parts separated, not the decline in viscosity. Also, when I referenced 75 MPH above, that would be indicated, which is 10% optimistic. The tachometer is also optimistic, even more optimistic than if the speedo were dead on.(on a stock geared bike that is..)
Cruising speeds are not up to me, as I usually don't lead except for in the twisties, but we also aren't going 75 mph. Its usually around 65-70.
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Best trip in V6: 52.0
Best tank in V6: 46.0
Best tank in CBR: 61.3
Best tank in VFR: 62.5
Best tank in SV: 83.9

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Old 02-06-2019, 09:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daschicken View Post
I was referring to shear as the ability of the oil to keep metal parts separated, not the decline in viscosity. Also, when I referenced 75 MPH above, that would be indicated, which is 10% optimistic. The tachometer is also optimistic, even more optimistic than if the speedo were dead on.(on a stock geared bike that is..)
Cruising speeds are not up to me, as I usually don't lead except for in the twisties, but we also aren't going 75 mph. Its usually around 65-70.
I believe that is referred to as film strength, and the thicker the oil the more there is. Pretty sure synthetic oils are superior to conventional in that respect.

How optimistic is the tach?

I don't have fairings, but I've noticed a significant decline in mileage once I get in the 70 mph range. At 80 mph (actual) it's in the low to mid 40s. I typically don't cruise that fast, but did consistently on my recent Interstate trip. We had a long ways to go...

Not really fun at those speeds without significant wind protection. I would expect the fairing will help your mileage as speeds increase.

Interested to see how high of numbers you can get.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daschicken View Post
My Ecomodder stickers showed up! One set went without incident, the other had some of the adhesive paper tear and threaten to leave behind the paper, but I approached from another angle and it came off cleanly.
Looks good! First photo of an EM decal on a motorcycle!

Thanks for the application details - you're the first to report back after applying from this new batch.

I think the supplier went with a hair too much cutting pressure which scored the backing paper under the vinyl. Requires more care than usual.
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Where is the svís speed sensor?

On the dL it is on the front sprocket.
Also stock gearing on my 13 dl650 puts an indicated 70mph at exactly 5k rpm.

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