More natural gas vehicles in the future?

[ke7en]

I'm not sure why the Phill doesn't have more widespread availability. It probably either has to do with having a certified local person to install it or local regulations. We had to get ours approved by whatever local housing board there was here (our installer took care of that). The company said they would send out their own engineer to help with the process is the board had any questions.

As far as noise, it isn't too bad. One of the bedrooms in our house is right above the garage and you can hear it, but it is more of a quiet hum. Standing directly outside my garage with the door closed you can hear it if you listen for it, but it is not something the neighbors would notice unless you share a common wall with them.

[Who]

ke7en, I'm not surprised that the Phill has a low uptake given the way the planets all need to be aligned. Some houses don't have NG. The conversion companies in this area at least only do Chrysler, Ford & GM. The conversions are fairly expensive, and only recently have they started using sequential injection by tapping into the ODB to allow the engine its best.

I want one!

[RH77]

Originally Posted by dremd

http://action.publicbroadcasting.net...st/981210.page

I listened to the show too! I was almost yelling in the car "It's a conversion, and it's probably cheap to run!"

RH77

[ke7en]

I know someone here who is in the process of trying to convert his Nissan XTerra to run off CNG. I'll ask him for more details as far as cost and what his impression on the overall process is once he gets it done.

[jonr]

Variable valve timing can be used to increase/decrease compression ratio (atkinson cycle), so an efficient dual fuel (gas/nat gas) could easily be built today. You could even use the gasoline injectors to trim out the A/F mixture (ie, use simplistic air/nat gas mixing and always run a little bit of gasoline).

$1.60/gal nat gas + the range of gasoline when you need it would be great. The nat gas tank could be relatively small (say 4 gallon equivalent).

[wagonman76]

15 HP 480 volt 3 phase motor. You could most likely get a single phase motor for it, itd not be quite as efficient but might offset the cost of getting 3 phase power installed at home. Or maybe run it off a lawn tractor engine instead.

Anyway 15 HP is 11.1855 kw. Say a common electric motor is running at 85% efficiency, thats 13.16 kw, the rest is waste heat. Dont know how long it would take to fill the tank, but just say it took an hour, then thatd be 13.16 kwh. At least here, electricity is about 10c per kwh, so itd cost $1.32 to run the compressor for an hour.

[wanna bECO]

Well, these alt fuel vehicles are good solutions for a temp fix, but the more I think about it the more electric makes sense environmentally anyway. We are going to need to use a renewable energy like... electric?? I'm probably going to start with an e bike of some type myself... using oil is hurting our planet in many ways and it seems to be hurting the economy. natural gas is a finite non renewable source of energy so we are going to need something sustainable. I can't believe I'm sounding like i own Birkenstock's.... stop me quick!!

[jonr]

Natural gas is a good short term solution and I hope to see more cars using it. Nuclear generated electric is the best mid term solution I know of.

Electric driven geothermal is already more cost efficient than nat gas for home heating - so it makes sense to me to use nat gas in cars.

[metromizer]

I took a 'long and hard look' at CNG for my particular situation, I came away to understand everyhting ke7en posted.

We have an entire fleet of flex-fuel gas/CNG Ford F150's, but almost no one flips the CNG switch on (they require you take an 8 hr training class to fill the CNG tank at our on-site refueling depot)

For commuting use, I could not justify was purchasing a used Civic GX for $12k, or close to $28k for a new one, then a Phill unit for $4k plus instal and permit fees (even if I get a rebate and tax credit). If I received a free GX, I'd be all over it!

More: Several years ago, I spoke with a couple of hobby drag racers at Sears Point Raceway who were campagning a CNG powered drag car (a Hudson I think). The two friends both worked for PG&E, the CNG and electric utility company in norcal. They were technicians of some sort. As I recall, they confirmed lower BTU than gasoline (slower car for similar displacement, but not by much), the slower burning fuel needed higher static compression and/or more ignition timing to regain some lost power, and they said they get a cleaner combustion chamber and the oil stays clean (race engine oil get contaminated real fast by unburned fuel slipping past the rings under the heavy loads). I was funny, since they had a regulator that looked identicle to the one outside my home, hanging off my meter

Anyhow, the only low-priced used CNG vehicles I see on Craig's List have been trucks and vans... I'm not going that direction. But the State of California and some of the public schools have fleets of sedans that will be sold off in the coming years.

Perhaps the GSA auctions would be worth looking at.

[metromizer]

I came across a company that sells conversion kits, they have an ok FAQ page

CNG Outfitters: Frequently Asked Questions