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Old 06-30-2008, 05:49 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post

With 2000 views I thought "this guy must be modding the snot outta that thing"! It's a legit question.
There is a difference in just slapping up images and posts then actually describing (in detail) each repair/mod with informative posts. Maybe that's why there are so many views on this thread or maybe it's just my sweet hairdo. Not only that, I am a member on like 20 other forums (automotive and gaming related) and I am one to post good posts and not spam. I have the same exact signature on these other forums as I do here, so when someone is finished reading my informative posts, they tend to click the link in my signature which brings them right here to ecomodder!

This is subliminal advertising. I have done this for years promoting my old gaming site (PlanetETF - Fast Free Fortress) and it generated 1000 hits per month with this method alone! Everyone who checks out my signature ends up right here on this thread or in my EM Garage instead of selfishly promoting my own site or some other needless crap.

Ecomodder.com is my newest home and I enjoy this place, so in turn, I am promoting this site this same way and generating more traffic to ecomodder than you think. Any Admin here would be able to see where traffic is coming from if they know what they are doing and not all of it is from search engines or news posts.

This thread will continue to be updated as I go along tweaking this car for fuel economy.

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Old 06-30-2008, 05:58 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I put brushes in my starter, and changed to synthetic oil. Pics to follow.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:43 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Great thread Johnny! I just bought a '96, and have been commuting 140 miles/day roundtrip. Like yourself, it's been my daily mule and I have been fixing stuff as I drive it. The thing is, I've done all the maintainence and tune up items, along with new tires with 42psi, Redline synth 5w30. I changed my driving style slowing down to 65mph and easy acceleration away from stops lights and signs, coasting with engine off when practicle... but still only 43-45mpg. I checked out my trans, and it has a 4.39 crown wheel (not-so-good for mpg). I scavenged and XFi cam and head, going to have a buddy rebuild it for me.

Couple of questions...

What ratio trans did you remove, and what do you have now?
Does you new-found fuel mileage include any big speedo/odo calibration errors?
How fast do you typically drive?
I read the entire thread, did you change the cam (to and XFi-type)?

thanks in advance ---Tom
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:37 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Is your Metro a 5 speed with the 1.0L 3 cylinder? You should be able to get 50MPG with that car by now. How does it run? Have you performed a compression test on all the cylinders to see if the engine is in need of internal repairs?

Quote:
What ratio trans did you remove, and what do you have now?
The 95+ 3 cyl 3-door hatchbacks got the 4.39 and I replaced mine with the same trans from a 1999 with 89,000 miles on it from a local junkyard. It was actually the only place in my area that had one available.
Quote:
Does you new-found fuel mileage include any big speedo/odo calibration errors?
Not possible. Same trans and no noticed errors after initial drive.
Quote:
How fast do you typically drive?
This is where I get my fuel mileage. My route is a 55MPH country road for 80% of my trip. I usually drive anywhere from 50-55 on this road and keep a steady throttle the whole way. No Interstate travel.
Quote:
I read the entire thread, did you change the cam (to and XFi-type)
I did not change the cam, but experimented with drilling holes in a spare cam gear to do timing advance (not the same as ignition advance) and found that I screwed the drilling up and was way off on my reading.

I took my spare cam and tried to estimate 6-8 degrees advance using a protractor and drilling a hole 186 degrees and putting the cam on backwards, but CoyoteX mentioned on another thread that 8 degrees would be a half tooth and when re-measuring my previous hole, I was like 2 teeth to far. I drilled and slotted another hole just past the original line-up hole, but never tried it out since I am actually afraid that something may go wrong and I cannot afford to have the car go down.

I plan on doing more aero modifications before doing anymore engine tweaks. So far in the works I have planned.............

Grill Block
Underbelly pan
Fender skirts
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:43 PM   #65 (permalink)
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if you were two teeth off couldn't you just move the belt those 2 notches and get it close

The way I did it was randomly drill a bunch of holes the right distance to line up with the cam pin and just play with it til I found a combination of belt position and hole that gave me the timing I wanted.

Set your ignition timing to 0 with the cam in the stock position then check your timing again after changing holes it to see what you got. If you are 18 degrees off move it a notch on the belt.

Just don't drill so many holes in it you don't have any strength left. 5 holes should be plenty to get you about any timing you could want.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:55 PM   #66 (permalink)
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here is a better picture of my duct tape aero mod even though we have different style bumpers.

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Old 06-30-2008, 11:52 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
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here is a better picture of my duct tape aero mod even though we have different style bumpers.


Red Green would be proud!!!. nice
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:02 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Hey Johnny. I just wanted to thank you for this post. Pictures are good. I just bought a metro a couple of days ago and dropped it off at the mechanic for a state inspection. Since then I have discovered that I'm an idiot.
Looking at Metromopgs list of what to avoid when buying a metro:
Bad synchro's. (well I did have some trouble shifting to third and second..oh crap)
Uneven compression (not measured but I do recall hearing a loud tapping from the middle of the cylinder head.
Rust (actually, this may be my only saving grace. Southern car, might be good) I'll be afraid to look when I pick it up.
Anyway, I'm apparently screwed and also broke due to gas so I am going to have to try to fix it up myself. Barring rust: can't weld. Bad rust changes the game.
So thanks. I'll have a laptop open to this thread next to me as I work.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:50 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
Is your Metro a 5 speed with the 1.0L 3 cylinder? You should be able to get 50MPG with that car by now. How does it run? Have you performed a compression test on all the cylinders to see if the engine is in need of internal repairs?
yep. 1 liter, 3cyl 5-sp. w/86k miles on the clock, but still only averaging 45mpg with 80% freeway commute driving at 65mph. 210-200-210 compression. Seems to run good, but idles a lot rougher than any 4,6, or V8 I am used to (typical of a 3 cylinder?). My trans is the same as yours 4.39 (I counted the teeth on the crown wheel, has 79). I've done the usual tune up stuff, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, didn't make much difference in mpg.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
This is where I get my fuel mileage. My route is a 55MPH country road for 80% of my trip. I usually drive anywhere from 50-55 on this road and keep a steady throttle the whole way. No Interstate travel.
Maybe I should try slowing down to 55mph... I learned on one 200mile trip, if I drive 70 or 75mph, my mileage drops like a stone to about 36mpg. I live and commute through the SF Bay Area, anyone from here knows that while driving 55mph on the freeway, you get run over... I'll have to think about that. I think I may swap the crown gear or entire trans to get a taller final drive. Not sure I want to tackle that this summer, but we'll see. My goal is still 65mph commute, and 50mpg average, day in and day out (not just a magic tankful every now and again).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
I did not change the cam, but experimented with drilling holes in a spare cam gear to do timing advance (not the same as ignition advance) and found that I screwed the drilling up and was way off on my reading.
I 'degree in' each cam I install in the few aircooled VW race engnes I build (I don't want to sound to much like a blow-hard, but I've built a few bad a$$ vw race engines). What I do is use a degree wheel, and mock up the valvetrain without any indexing pin between the gear and cam (I also use readily available aftermarket vw cam gears with slotted holes, very different than the metro) I go through the degreeing process, rotating the cam gear a little either direction until I get what I'm after, lock it down and carefully pull the cam and gear unit out and 'match drill' the cam and gear together. Then knock in an 1/8" roll pin, which holds the setting. A different arrangement than Suzuki I know, but I bet we could do something like that with a metro cam and gear. The key here is to learn how to (if you don't already know) degree in a cam using a degree wheel and dial indicator... You also need to degree in TDC with respect to the crankshaft timing mark (indicator tip through the spark plug hole, bend the timing tab as needed). Either using the 'split overlap' or 'intake opening at .050" ' methods, it's a whole process that I couldn't begin to describe in text here.

I've learned that knowing where the cam is dialed with respect to crankshaft TDC is key to being able to evaluate what changes did what, and what I should do next. BTW, in general with combinations I've played with and dyno'ed, advancing a race cam 2-4 degrees in a race engine does in fact move the entire torque curve (as a unit) down the rpm range, noticable on the dyno and at the track (again, with combination I've personally worked with). My experience has been very consitant with what I have been reading on the forums with respect to advancing the lesser duration XFi cam or stock 1 liter cams.
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Old 07-01-2008, 05:07 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I actually like the front end on the earlier Generation III Metro's: the guppy mouth 95-97
Geo models.

Mine is a 98 and it has the "Schick Quattro wide-mouth multi-blade" look... somehow it's too fussy for the rest of the car... I'm thinking it will look better in a bra.

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