New prius announced!

[Blacktree]

Originally Posted by Phase

Gen 4 looks like a spaceship fighter and cool.

Once again, it's all subjective. You have one opinion. I have a different one. That's perfectly normal.

[Phase]

Originally Posted by Blacktree

Once again, it's all subjective. You have one opinion. I have a different one. That's perfectly normal.

Like I said it’s an age thing. Like how a lot of old people think old mustangs or a 57 Chevy looks cool or 80s corvette, but not one young person on the planet thinks old cars look cool

[freebeard]

...but not one young person on the planet thinks old cars look cool

I don't think you can speak for the young people, being Millennial and all. Let me quote the VWs, Finally thread:

https://myspeed.in/2022/06/21/volvo-...tour-finalist/

This car was started by a 14-year-old, Austin McNeil, and was a finalist in the Hot Wheels Legends Tour. He says he rodded a Beetle to inspire a younger gneration.

[redpoint5]

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, but it's not arbitrary.

This car is never going to be a collector

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by Phase

More horsepower and more aero, you’d think the highway mpg would skyrocket with that…

Generally speaking, the more horsepower you add, the worse the fuel economy gets.

As for why Hyundai still holds the crown for EPA, that's tough to say. According to Fuelly, in the real world the 4th gen Prius averages 2-3mpg higher than the Ioniq, despite the Ioniq being EPA-rated some 3-4mpg higher. They're both within spitting distance of each other though, and when they're that close, it kindof ceases to be important.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Now you've got me wondering... assuming exactly the same gear ratio between DCT and eCVT in the exact same car, traveling say 70 MPH, what is the difference in efficiency?

How do transmission losses compare between DCT and the planetary gears found in an eCVT?

So you have your BSFC g/kWh graph with the islands of efficiency. Basically the car can target that super high efficiency island the entire time (a certain rpm and load and torque output), which makes up for the extreme loss the eCVT gives. But that loss really only dissapears in town when you are going up and down in speed. Targeting an exact 70mph on the interstate where both cars have been designed to get good gas mileage they are probably more or less on par for their maximum efficiencies.

I would say eCVT efficiency is around 82% and DCT is around 91%+ efficient.

I imagine if you just dyno'd a prius and ioniq new after break in on a dyno the same day you will see around the efficiency difference.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by hayden55

So you have your BSFC g/kWh graph with the islands of efficiency. Basically the car can target that super high efficiency island the entire time (a certain rpm and load and torque output), which makes up for the extreme loss the eCVT gives.

I would say eCVT efficiency is around 85% and DCT is around 91%+ efficient.

I imagine if you just dyno'd a prius and ioniq new after break in on a dyno the same day you will see around the efficiency difference.

Where do the eCVT inefficiencies come from? I sometimes find planetary gears with multiple inputs hard to wrap my head around. It's my understanding that the electric motors need to provide some torque against the engine to get some of the ratios, but there are no frictional losses you wouldn't have in a DCT or manual.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Where do the eCVT inefficiencies come from? I sometimes find planetary gears with multiple inputs hard to wrap my head around. It's my understanding that the electric motors need to provide some torque against the engine to get some of the ratios, but there are no frictional losses you wouldn't have in a DCT or manual.

You have a **** load of gears and parts all moving together. Hence the planetary gear name. So each extra moving component compounds the loss.

DCT is pretty simple and less complex so less loss and no torque converter loss because of the clutches.

But those DCTs wear out fast and require oil changes more often to decrease wear. So probably in the long term the prius will be cheaper to own.

Lol I did the 100k change in my eCVT prius again recently and i saw some good wear on mine. Completely burnt and a bit silvery so I bet me towing with it so aggressively wore it a bit but it seems to function like new no problems still. Put more toyota fluid in and a magnetic drain plug from a Hilux and its good to go again.

I bet just adding a part from a Hilux to my car now means the car is indestructible.

[Ecky]

I'm not disagreeing, but in a manual or DCT, the whole gear stack spins, they're just not locked to the output shaft. So, you're spinning 6 or 7 or 8 or 10 gears, and in the case of a DCT, you usually have four or more gear reductions in total, going through at least three shafts. With a Toyota HSD, it's what, a ring gear, three or four planetary gears, and one sun gear? Two reductions? I always assumed there would be fewer frictional and gear losses, and that the problem with the system was the need to oppose the ICE with an electric motor to get some of the drive ratios.

[freebeard]

I bet just adding a part from a Hilux to my car now means the car is indestructible.

Traditionally, you just lift up the radiator cap and drive a new car underneath.