Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-19-2022, 09:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Blacktree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 200

The Prius Experiment - '07 Toyota Prius Base
90 day: 61.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 44
Thanked 103 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase View Post
Gen 4 looks like a spaceship fighter and cool.
Once again, it's all subjective. You have one opinion. I have a different one. That's perfectly normal.

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-19-2022, 10:03 PM   #22 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: oregon
Posts: 620

Black Bullet - '19 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Blue
Thanks: 0
Thanked 325 Times in 274 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacktree View Post
Once again, it's all subjective. You have one opinion. I have a different one. That's perfectly normal.
Like I said it’s an age thing. Like how a lot of old people think old mustangs or a 57 Chevy looks cool or 80s corvette, but not one young person on the planet thinks old cars look cool
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2022, 11:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 24,357
Thanks: 6,873
Thanked 7,746 Times in 6,334 Posts
Quote:
...but not one young person on the planet thinks old cars look cool
I don't think you can speak for the young people, being Millennial and all. Let me quote the VWs, Finally thread:

This car was started by a 14-year-old, Austin McNeil, and was a finalist in the Hot Wheels Legends Tour. He says he rodded a Beetle to inspire a younger gneration.
__________________
.
.

Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
____________________

"Stuff just keeps on getting older...." -- Graham Hancock

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2022, 11:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 10,791

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 25.4 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,703
Thanked 3,999 Times in 3,022 Posts
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, but it's not arbitrary.

This car is never going to be a collector
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2022, 01:21 AM   #25 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,812

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.32 mpg (US)

Work Vehicle - '17 Toyota RAV4
90 day: 31.42 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,698
Thanked 2,373 Times in 1,470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase View Post
More horsepower and more aero, you’d think the highway mpg would skyrocket with that…
Generally speaking, the more horsepower you add, the worse the fuel economy gets.

As for why Hyundai still holds the crown for EPA, that's tough to say. According to Fuelly, in the real world the 4th gen Prius averages 2-3mpg higher than the Ioniq, despite the Ioniq being EPA-rated some 3-4mpg higher. They're both within spitting distance of each other though, and when they're that close, it kindof ceases to be important.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2022, 05:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,065

Sport Utility Prius - '10 Toyota Prius II
90 day: 52.98 mpg (US)

Sequoia - '04 Toyota Sequoia Limited
90 day: 17.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 319
Thanked 233 Times in 185 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Now you've got me wondering... assuming exactly the same gear ratio between DCT and eCVT in the exact same car, traveling say 70 MPH, what is the difference in efficiency?

How do transmission losses compare between DCT and the planetary gears found in an eCVT?
So you have your BSFC g/kWh graph with the islands of efficiency. Basically the car can target that super high efficiency island the entire time (a certain rpm and load and torque output), which makes up for the extreme loss the eCVT gives. But that loss really only dissapears in town when you are going up and down in speed. Targeting an exact 70mph on the interstate where both cars have been designed to get good gas mileage they are probably more or less on par for their maximum efficiencies.

I would say eCVT efficiency is around 82% and DCT is around 91%+ efficient.

I imagine if you just dyno'd a prius and ioniq new after break in on a dyno the same day you will see around the efficiency difference.
__________________
"I feel like the bad decisions come into play when you trade too much of your time for money paying for things you can't really afford."
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hayden55 For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (11-21-2022)
Old 11-20-2022, 05:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,812

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.32 mpg (US)

Work Vehicle - '17 Toyota RAV4
90 day: 31.42 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,698
Thanked 2,373 Times in 1,470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post
So you have your BSFC g/kWh graph with the islands of efficiency. Basically the car can target that super high efficiency island the entire time (a certain rpm and load and torque output), which makes up for the extreme loss the eCVT gives.

I would say eCVT efficiency is around 85% and DCT is around 91%+ efficient.

I imagine if you just dyno'd a prius and ioniq new after break in on a dyno the same day you will see around the efficiency difference.
Where do the eCVT inefficiencies come from? I sometimes find planetary gears with multiple inputs hard to wrap my head around. It's my understanding that the electric motors need to provide some torque against the engine to get some of the ratios, but there are no frictional losses you wouldn't have in a DCT or manual.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2022, 05:50 PM   #28 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,065

Sport Utility Prius - '10 Toyota Prius II
90 day: 52.98 mpg (US)

Sequoia - '04 Toyota Sequoia Limited
90 day: 17.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 319
Thanked 233 Times in 185 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Where do the eCVT inefficiencies come from? I sometimes find planetary gears with multiple inputs hard to wrap my head around. It's my understanding that the electric motors need to provide some torque against the engine to get some of the ratios, but there are no frictional losses you wouldn't have in a DCT or manual.
You have a **** load of gears and parts all moving together. Hence the planetary gear name. So each extra moving component compounds the loss.

DCT is pretty simple and less complex so less loss and no torque converter loss because of the clutches.

But those DCTs wear out fast and require oil changes more often to decrease wear. So probably in the long term the prius will be cheaper to own.

Lol I did the 100k change in my eCVT prius again recently and i saw some good wear on mine. Completely burnt and a bit silvery so I bet me towing with it so aggressively wore it a bit but it seems to function like new no problems still. Put more toyota fluid in and a magnetic drain plug from a Hilux and its good to go again.

I bet just adding a part from a Hilux to my car now means the car is indestructible.
__________________
"I feel like the bad decisions come into play when you trade too much of your time for money paying for things you can't really afford."

Last edited by hayden55; 11-20-2022 at 05:55 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hayden55 For This Useful Post:
Ecky (11-20-2022), freebeard (11-20-2022)
Old 11-20-2022, 06:01 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,812

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.32 mpg (US)

Work Vehicle - '17 Toyota RAV4
90 day: 31.42 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,698
Thanked 2,373 Times in 1,470 Posts
I'm not disagreeing, but in a manual or DCT, the whole gear stack spins, they're just not locked to the output shaft. So, you're spinning 6 or 7 or 8 or 10 gears, and in the case of a DCT, you usually have four or more gear reductions in total, going through at least three shafts. With a Toyota HSD, it's what, a ring gear, three or four planetary gears, and one sun gear? Two reductions? I always assumed there would be fewer frictional and gear losses, and that the problem with the system was the need to oppose the ICE with an electric motor to get some of the drive ratios.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2022, 06:02 PM   #30 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 24,357
Thanks: 6,873
Thanked 7,746 Times in 6,334 Posts
Quote:
I bet just adding a part from a Hilux to my car now means the car is indestructible.
Traditionally, you just lift up the radiator cap and drive a new car underneath.

__________________
.
.

Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
____________________

"Stuff just keeps on getting older...." -- Graham Hancock

____________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
hayden55 (11-20-2022), Joggernot (11-21-2022)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com