Nissan Leaf

[Hypermiler1995]

Redpoint5-are you using epa ratings or average user ratings? User would be more accurate,
I figured a drive it till it drops list on new gas/hybrid cars based on user mpg, long story short I lost it,
But I remember this:

1 Mits mirage
2 Chevy spark
3 Toyota prius c

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

I've had more than a few vehicles that I sold for more than all the money I spent on them including fuel, fees, insurance, and every other cost combined to operate them for thousands of miles.

I once purchased a 2007 Outback on CL and sold it a month later for $1k more to the first person that responded to my CL ad.

It's certainly possible for vehicles to be a money maker, but for 99% of people it's not. You've really got to know the market, be good at haggling, and have some mechanical know-how.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

What cost did you carry for maintenance on the Leaf?

I assumed $75/year, which was half of the maintenance cost I assumed for my TSX. Basically assuming tires and something very minor every few years. The spreadsheet linked in my signature has example vehicle #1 as my TSX, when I purchased it in 2010, and a hypothetical 2011 Leaf as vehicle #2 if I purchased it now.

[NeilBlanchard]

Okay, wear and tear on the tires is included; that's good to know. Though even if you change your own oil and do your own maintenance, wouldn't it cost more than $75 per year?

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Okay, wear and tear on the tires is included; that's good to know. Though even if you change your own oil and do your own maintenance, wouldn't it cost more than $75 per year?

Leaf's don't need oil changes though right? I do think we need to ad maybe $50+ year for tires depending on tire cost and miles rating. Also I think the maintenance cost's overall seem very best case scenario. I think doubeling them would probably get us closer to real world numbers. Hard to say for sure though.

[P-hack]

ran a bunch of errands today and except where it was extra slippery I treated the throttle/shifter like an on-off switch with heavy acceleration, only turning on the climate control to defrost occasionally, but with long neutral glides and little braking. got about 3.3 mi/kwh ($0.03/mile). It glides pretty well, heavy and tires pumped up, but it doesn't pick up speed on its own in neutral going downhill like an econobox, I think the 8:1 gearing and motor inertia (and magnets) keep gravity from accelerating it like I'm used to. It is fun to P&G it though, the pulses are a lot shorter (faster) and the glides a lot longer. I was often well over the limit before I realized it. Were I able to time the lights better and keep it moving (and out of the slush) I'm sure it would do much better than 3.3mi/kwh ( epa rated for 2.94 miles-per-kWh). I would entertain a higher gear ratio, as it shouldn't really effect range and I don't need 93mph, it would be a lot quicker yet with a 11:1 ratio and still be reasonably efficient at regular hiway speeds around here (though the wheels may already be close to the traction limit).

Oh, and I'm getting the hang of the electronic parking brake (as turning assist), managed a few 180s in the snow while navigating parking lots without hitting anything. You have to account for like a 2 second delay :/ (It reminds me of flappy bird for some reason), have not yet got the timing down good enough to drift a corner yet.

[redpoint5]

*The numbers I have quoted in this thread for vehicle cost of ownership reflect my driving habits and costs. You may input your own numbers into the spreadsheet to calculate costs that would be relevant to you. All of the values can be modified, and the results are auto-calculated.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Okay, wear and tear on the tires is included; that's good to know. Though even if you change your own oil and do your own maintenance, wouldn't it cost more than $75 per year?

I estimated $75/year for repairs and maintenance for me if I owned the Leaf. My estimate on the TSX for maintenance and repairs is $150/year based on my past 5 years of ownership, having only spent money on 5 oil changes and 1 set of wiper blades.

In my 8 years of ownership of a '96 Subaru Legacy, my only costs were 2 sets of tires (one set of 4 new tires was only $80 mounted, balanced, and warrantied, the other set were snow tires given to me), a clutch, flywheel, and throw-out bearing (bought it with a bad clutch and replaced myself), and $40/year in oil changes at Jiffy Lube. Oh, and a side window from a thief doing a smash and grab - $80. I repaired the door lock myself from the thief attempting to punch it out. It was fixed by putting the key in the tumbler and grinding the pins flush with the tumbler on a bench grinder. Of course, I ignored the P0420 CEL about my catalytic converter efficiency being below threshold.

Most people can't keep their maintenance and repair bills this low, so that's why I suggest running your own numbers. AAA says the average driver pays $0.0497 per mile in maintenance and repairs. It also says the average driver pays almost $0.60 per mile when all costs are accounted for.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by P-hack

ran a bunch of errands today and except where it was extra slippery I treated the throttle/shifter like an on-off switch with heavy acceleration, only turning on the climate control to defrost occasionally, but with long neutral glides and little braking. got about 3.3 mi/kwh ($0.03/mile). It glides pretty well, heavy and tires pumped up, but it doesn't pick up speed on its own in neutral going downhill like an econobox, I think the 8:1 gearing and motor inertia (and magnets) keep gravity from accelerating it like I'm used to. It is fun to P&G it though

I pay $0.14 / kWh for electricity so that would be $0.042/ mile

Isn't PnG worse for energy efficiency with an electric vehicle? High load creates more waste heat in an electric motor than low loads especially at take off.

[P-hack]

Originally Posted by sendler

I pay $0.14 / kWh for electricity so that would be $0.042/ mile

You are cooking the books by including service charges/fees in that number, unless you were off grid and had to go on-grid to get an EV. It is far more predictive and genuine to keep them separate. Otherwise it is just nonsense, if an EV doubles your usage, THEN what is your cost/kwh?!? See what I mean? With your oversimplified approach the more you use the less it costs (and is that really the spin you want to put on it?). I'm not saying do it because of feel-goodery, I'm saying it because it is far more accurate.

Originally Posted by sendler

Isn't PnG worse for energy efficiency with an electric vehicle? High load creates more waste heat in an electric motor than low loads especially at take off.

Most folks seem to think it is good for ~%10 in an EV (perhaps coincidentally I was %12 above EPA yesterday). Also P&G is rather low duty cycle in this (accelerates fast, and glides good). I posted a "bsfc" chart which tells much of the story, plus it is direct drive so it is easy to extrapolate to mph. Try to avoid dead stops, and unnecessary braking, but no reason to be shy of the accelerator if you can glide it out it seems.

[P-hack]

Another observation here with so many slick spots on the road, the traction control is light-years ahead of anything else I've driven. In the caravan and the prius, traction control is more punitive: "If you keep putting your foot down that hard I'm going to keep shutting down completely and make you wait". But the leaf backs off just enough for the appropriate wheel speed then cycles back towards the throttle setting, and you can hear it slip at the end of the cycle so you know you can back off on the throttle (it blips a little light too).

[sendler]

Originally Posted by P-hack

You are cooking the books by including service charges/fees in that number

The only fee that is fixed is the $17 service fee. All other line fees and taxes ect. are usage based. They all go up just the same whether you are plugged into the fridge or the car. So my 1,750 miles / month would add 530kWh/ month. Bringing my total use to 1,155 kWh/ month. $145/ month including the line fee. So throwing out the line fee, the feel good method would show that the "car" used at $0.111/ kWh but the REALITY of the bill for that month would still be $0.126/ kWh. Most people probably don't drive 1,750 miles/ month so the reduction in rate from what they were paying before the electric car as they ameliorate the line fee would be less than my example. From $0.14 to $0.13 say