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Old 12-01-2015, 02:41 PM   #2421 (permalink)
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When considering the use of the CAN protocol, be aware of security too. CAN is what those hackers used to take control of numerous cars. You are talking about critical propulsion control systems here. Yes currently small scale-low value targets but still. Security MUST start at the beginning or it will never be added at the end. Sure the worst of the hacking was because a certain manufacturer had the cellular enabled mobile entertainment system and the ECU and everything else cobbled together.
Totally agree w/ Piotrsko. CAN itself isn't the problem, any more than if USB or ethernet were used to transmit the information. From what I've found, it's the wireless interfaces that are the main problem. Yes, infotainment systems with "conveniences" such as the ability to use your I-phone to monitor your cars performance are obvious weak points. However, there are more hidden ones, like the Tire Pressure Monitoring system. It actually uses little wireless transmitters to provide tire pressure for the main system. These have actually been used as gateways for hackers to take over the car's control.

That, in a nutshell, is why I won't have wireless anything connected to my control system. If someone wants to hack my car, they must have a physical wire connection. Also, in the philosophy of KISS, I think all primary controls should be discrete connections. Inter-computer bus communication arguments shall have no place in my car when I'm pushing it to it's limit. Of course there still are failure modes like EMI interference and the wire shorting/breaking loose.

I want to be dead certain that when I'm running away from the zombies after the apocolypse, that they can't just use an I phone to turn my racecar into a golf cart.

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Old 12-01-2015, 02:42 PM   #2422 (permalink)
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well, even a $5 bluetooth adapter on your controller cpu (or your obd port, or??) so you can tweak it with your phone is a potential weak point, but they are secured by a really hard to guess PIN, like 6789 though.

but don't overthink it, unless you are going to open it up to the internet. but bluetooth logging to a phone /computer will get you %99.999 of use cases. and the phone can proxy to the internet for other stuff. I'd worry more about user friendly stuff than abstract communications for theoretical components. But I'm not trying to invent a market for hypothetical components or anything either.
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Old 12-01-2015, 02:55 PM   #2423 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
What do you need to know about volt packs? Just ask.

And the cells do seperate with a hair dryer and gentle persuasion.

Fwiw Can is secure if it isnt connected to outside anywhere. It is the internet enabled interfaces that get hacked. Can is just a compliant accomplice that doesn't know how to say no to requests.
Thank you VERY much!
I'll PM some questions when I get closer. You're also over @ DIY EV, right?
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:17 PM   #2424 (permalink)
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well, even a $5 bluetooth adapter on your controller cpu (or your obd port, or??) so you can tweak it with your phone is a potential weak point, but they are secured by a really hard to guess PIN, like 6789 though.

but don't overthink it, unless you are going to open it up to the internet. but bluetooth logging to a phone /computer will get you %99.999 of use cases. and the phone can proxy to the internet for other stuff. I'd worry more about user friendly stuff than abstract communications for theoretical components. But I'm not trying to invent a market for hypothetical components or anything either.
All of this stuff is silly cheap, until it's refined into a "product." Look at the Andromeda display - all the parts for that are pretty cheap, but they charge over $600 for the product.
I think this datalogging is a perfectly good example. As I'm looking for ways to communicate my BMS's information to other car parts, I found something interesting. The BMS uses a Linduino (basically an Arduino uno w/ some extra stuff) for the main control. There's a pretty cheap "shield" that can translate whatever data onto the CAN bus.
https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials...d-hookup-guide

Notice on the shield that there's a micro SD card connector? Now that sounds awesome, you could save something like 4GB or 8GB of data. I can also simply plug an SD card directly into the laptop I'm writing this on. All the data would easily be available for any spreadsheet to analyze.

Paul - how much would be involved with adding one of these little buggers to the controller, then datalog everything with a time stamp? The data dump rate could be fine or course, depending on one easy parameter setting.

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Old 12-01-2015, 03:32 PM   #2425 (permalink)
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I think that's what I'm getting at, just log it over bluetooth to an android or pc, easy to use, probably has all kinds of storage, $5 bluetooth plugs in to the uart, badda-bing. gets you out of visual studio and circuit design hell quicker too (and into a fresh new hell), here it is working with the huebner controller: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...762#post479762
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:04 PM   #2426 (permalink)
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I've never used a memory card before. I've seen the code though. It's not a small thing to include, in terms of software, from what I've seen. It would be very nice though.

I don't have any handshaking or who knows what with the rs-232 serial. Would there be anything special involved in adding one of those bluetooth interfaces? Or is it just as simple as connecting the ground, tx, and rx to the input of the bluetooth, and then the phone or whatever magically receives the data? So, is this all you do?

cell phone --- $5 bluetooth thing --- rx, tx, ground on control board.
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:18 PM   #2427 (permalink)
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I don't have any handshaking or who knows what with the rs-232 serial. Would there be anything special involved in adding one of those bluetooth interfaces?
it plugs straight in iirc, just choose the right voltage pin. default is 9600 and 1234 PIN.

for now I just use it like a pocket hyperterminal, but that can certainly be built upon with formatted data request/response/streams/etc.
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:40 PM   #2428 (permalink)
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So, you just use something like this?:
http://www.amazon.com/JBtek-Wireless...luetooth+rs232

Do you need both a master and a slave? I don't know who was the master or slave with how I've been doing it. When the controller wants to send something to the screen, it sends it. When it receives something, it receives it.
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:56 PM   #2429 (permalink)
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yup hc-05 is what I used (did you see my diyec link edit in #2425?). I also made life harder on myself by changing the pin, and matching the default controller baud, instead of just plugging it in and changing the controller to 9600 for starters.

I wound up patching the controller to get the linefeeds in ansi/vt100 format, and using an android app called blueterm for initial connection. I don't quite get the master slave thing either, I guess the android or the pc is the master, i.e. it has to do with the initial pairing.
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Old 12-01-2015, 05:45 PM   #2430 (permalink)
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I think I would have to get this:
http://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-V4-0...uetooth+serial

Because our family cell phone is the spawn of satan. I mean, the iphone. No... I mean the spawn of satan.

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