Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-20-2019, 08:46 PM   #41 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brazil
Posts: 1,268
Thanks: 7
Thanked 328 Times in 295 Posts
This is probably a bad foam quality. A good decent foam quality have no ploblem with small bricks, but can have with large pieces.

But for me it's hard to believe even the best foam agent with the best foam machine, able to create foam as good as shaving cream, could cast large pieces like they showed in the video link I posted.

https://youtu.be/SGaLOoFN0RU?t=229

Anyway, in a video a guy compared different foam agents, using the same foam machine, and checking how much each foam agent was able to stand without shrink. The agent suggested by Gaia wasn't the best in performance in the test video.
Unless Gaia's Little Dragon (foam machine) it's much better than most foam machine, I can't believe they can cast large pieces. If they can somehow, the bottom it's much denser than the top, due gravity concentrating the foam at bottom.



Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Wiil Xist agree?

At Permalink #6 I suggested pumping aircrete through a nozzle in a 3D printer.

edit: Three minute difference. Don't you know more about aircrete than the rest of us?


Last edited by All Darc; 04-20-2019 at 08:52 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-21-2019, 07:41 AM   #42 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 8,138

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 37.1 mpg (US)

Mom's grandmamobile - '06 Toyota Camry SE
Thanks: 5,213
Thanked 1,517 Times in 1,153 Posts
My experiments with shaving cream were a complete failure. I just hope that if I follow the inventors instructions, I will have similar results.



This says that a 10' x 15' x 4" slab would require 111 60-pound bags of concrete. I read that 4" is adequate for a shed. Each bag is $3.15 from the friendly neighborhood Lowe's, but they offer a 30% discount for 56+.

For a shed with an interior dimension of 10 x 15, I estimate needing 116 metal studs. They are $5.87 each, but they offer 17.5% off 70+. For the record, wooden 2" x 4" x 8' studs are $2.86, over $3 less each before the discount, over 40% less after the discount.

Without an overhang, the roof would be 12.09' x 15'. A six-inch overhang would make that 13.09' x 16'. Six pieces of plywood would be 12' x 16'. He has one 2x8 spanning the peak, from gable to gable, and two 2x4s halfway down on each side. I wouldn't want a nice peaked roof like his, but a 2" x 4" x 16' board is $6.23 and a 2" x 8" x 16' is $10.96, but the nearest Lowe's with one in stock is 155.1 miles away. Do you think they would understand me crossing the street and purchasing one from Home Depot?

15/32 CAT PS1-09 Douglas Fir Plywood Sheathing, Application as 4 x 8 is $22.65. Is that the right type and thickness? He used OSB, though.

He has 2 x 4s every two feet on the roof, on top of the plywood, running vertically. If I use a 12' board and then a short second board they would be $4.68 each. Another 2" x 4" x 16' on the bottom.

Then he had another layer of plywood.

A layer of Ice and Water Shield Leak Shield. Lowe's does not have it. I do not know if it is the same stuff, but Home Depot has something with the same name for $129, but also Ice and Water Shield Leak Barrier for $69. He used the more expensive one.

Huh. He said that he was going to pour aircrete between the layers of the roof, but he covered the gap with shield and felt. He needed to cut pieces of plywood to cover the gap, right? Since he built a crane to lift the gables I wondered if he would make some kind of pump, but it seems like he did not insulate it after all.

Where is the fun in that?

He could have built roof panels like the wall panels and lifted them with his crane, or you could use normal insulation. Rockwool is $65.47 for 8 23" x 47" batts. I think that three would be about perfect

Lowe's
$244.75 concrete
..558.35 metal studs
....18.69 2" x 4" x 16'
....10.96 2" x 8" x 16'
..317.10 plywood
....46.80 2" 4" x 16'
....21.43 roofing felt
......7.57 roofing nails
..196.41 Rockwool
..168.....light grey shingles

Home Depot
$69 Ice and Water Shield Leak Barrier

That does not seem to include tax, which would make the total $1,800.18. He added a window. I would just want a door. I have not figured in cost for rebar, mesh, ties, the wall cement, the mesh for the wall panels, everything he uses to fasten the panels together, everything for stucco, and if the grandfather was going to use this as a workshop, it would need electricity!

Someone said that there are two types of concrete, concrete that has cracked, and concrete that will crack. I hope that using a "Jumping jack" would reduce that. Lowe's does not have tool rentals, but Home Depot does.

$67 Jumping Jack
..32 cement mixer
..12 bull float

I felt that I would need to more than three tools.

Heck! It is 0440!

Everything that I have priced adds up to $1,912. This would definitely cost over $2,000 before all of the aircrete tools.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Aircrete Shed.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	50.2 KB
ID:	25782  
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2019, 10:18 AM   #43 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brazil
Posts: 1,268
Thanks: 7
Thanked 328 Times in 295 Posts
Have you heard about ecologic bricks?
It's made by mix of earth and cement, and put in a compressing machine. It work as legos :



  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2019, 12:05 PM   #44 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 8,138

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 37.1 mpg (US)

Mom's grandmamobile - '06 Toyota Camry SE
Thanks: 5,213
Thanked 1,517 Times in 1,153 Posts
I saw that a while ago. I remember watching a man making them at a high rate of speed, but I swear that it was all human labor. The videos that I find now show hydraulic presses. There must be an awesome return on investment on that, but that has a bit of a start up cost.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2019, 12:42 PM   #45 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brazil
Posts: 1,268
Thanks: 7
Thanked 328 Times in 295 Posts
There are manual press and hydraulic press. The manual press take a lot of labor. There are also machines to mix and to sift the soil.

I did a fast research, and found that on Brazil the cost (not including buy the machines) to produce a 1000 ecologic bricks it's about 250 reals (64 dollars), considering soil/earth (need right mix of clay soil and sand soil) cement, water, energy. The sale of the finished brick product it's about 1000 reals.

Ecologic brick are fine for dry climate areas, but not good for high moisture climate. I'm not sure if they are not very good for humid climate because people let the blicks aparent, without a layer of plaster covering it, or if even the plaster can't protec the bricks from moisture.

Making a politic insight, when people say that it's a good idea help homeless have a home, I think the best solution it's to find such alternatives and train homeless people to work building the homes. With ecologic bricks the production cost it's low for who build the bricks (with machine help), and to build the home itself a few training it's enough, with some supervision of course, since some technics place the brick using a special glue. It needs some rebar with concrete, filling the brick's wholes with rebar and concrete, but not all brick's holes but just in some points, each a couple of meters distant or in a edge of wall, I think. But it's quite like a lego building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
I saw that a while ago. I remember watching a man making them at a high rate of speed, but I swear that it was all human labor. The videos that I find now show hydraulic presses. There must be an awesome return on investment on that, but that has a bit of a start up cost.

Last edited by All Darc; 04-21-2019 at 12:49 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2019, 05:56 PM   #46 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,880
Thanks: 3,407
Thanked 4,573 Times in 3,641 Posts
You seem to like estimating

What's the design brief, again? A 2nd shed in the yard? Insulated or not?

Compare you estimate against adding onto the first (raise for loft and and shed on the side). Or post and beam construction:


http://cdn.jamaicacottageshop.com/wp...it-montana.jpg

2x4 corners are complex, so just use 4x4s there with [two] 2x4 horizontal girts and (2x4 studs on 72" centers/doorways). Price it out.

I designed and built (1 assistant) a 30x40 ft garage with 4x4s and vertical siding on the horizontal girts, so it was closed but uninsulated. I like the skip sheathing on the example. Need ventilation? The local building department had me sink the 4x4s into the ground and scab formers onto the sides to pour a [discontinuous] concrete footing. Their idea not mine.

Quote:
For a shed with an interior dimension of 10 x 15, I estimate ... the roof would be 12.09' x 15'.
Help me with the math?

I have an envelope and on the back it says:
  • 4ea 10ft 4x4
  • 50 ln ft top plate (2x6?)
  • 82 ln ft 2x4
  • 4x4in/50ft concrete 5.6 cubic ft
  • siding of choice

Else a fifth (or sixth) 4x4 to break up the long wall. The girts can be 6-8ft long comfortably. Ten feet is stretching it. Doors on the side or ends?
__________________
.
KONOSUBA -God's blessing on this wonderful world!
2019-11-12
_________________

Last edited by freebeard; 04-21-2019 at 06:26 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 01:36 PM   #47 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 8,138

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 37.1 mpg (US)

Mom's grandmamobile - '06 Toyota Camry SE
Thanks: 5,213
Thanked 1,517 Times in 1,153 Posts
Are ecological bricks the same as earth blocks?

All Darc, I wrote most of this response, went to look up something, and completely forgot what.

When I searched again for ecological bricks I found this:

They are out of Brazil, which does not help me very much.

Interestingly, I specified U.S.

I read that it was not suitable for humid climates. Does rain erode the surface? Does humidity soften the bricks?

Both?

If it is the former, I wonder if stucco would compensate, or if you could seal it.

Doesn't Brazil have rainforests and stuff?

Sounds humid!

That led to an actual company in the U.S:

The website says that it produces 800 - 1,400 10cm x 18cm x 35.5cm bricks in eight hours.

If they are selling in the U.S., why don't we use measurements we understand?

3.94" x 7.09" x 13.98"

Lowe's cheapest entry door is 32" x 80" ($66)

It would require at least 1,400 blocks, which could be made in a day or two. How long would it take to stack? Run rebar, pour concrete around the rebar, and there are a couple different steps to waterproof the bricks.

Well, they charge $26,705 U.S.

That makes for a very expensive shed!

“It is recommended that the BP714 is sold as a complete system / success package, which includes a spare parts kit, a mixer, two weeks on-site training and a soil test kit.”

Please tell me all of that is included!

Two weeks of on-site training. This should take less than a week, so then what?

It takes seven days for the bricks to cure enough for construction, so you spend a day or two making them, earn a Associate’s in earth block construction over the next five days, assemble the house, and spend the rest of your week earning a Bachelor’s?

I found more brick makers for around $27,000. I just want a manual one! I found this, though: https://permies.com/t/33406/built-Cinva-Ram-CEB-press

There are open-source plans for a manual machine and someone in the U.S. tried to make them, but everything was in metric, and it was not possible to just convert them. One reason was that he could not get plate in metric thicknesses, so he redid it in 1/4" plate, and had a company out there in Arkansas cut it with a water jet. He said that it cost $215, but did not include all of the bits. He also talked to them about cutting the pieces again for other people and he said you could contact the shop, say you want Mike Cantrell's press parts from March 2011, and they would mail them to you.

Three hundred dollars with shipping so that you too can play with dirt?

Here is a $30 design for making bricks for a retaining wall or raised bed gardens: https://permies.com/t/13875/method-c...rth-blocks-CEB



This guy wrote that he built a number of small structures two years ago and they have withstood the rainy pacific northwest: https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/...s-zmaz76mjztak

How much force would a manual soda can crusher exert? Someone suggested basing a brick maker on a can crusher, but a kid can crush a can, so would it have enough force: https://permies.com/t/12286/Vertical...itter-converts

This guy argues for making non-interlocking bricks (and using mortar): https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/w...t_to_Interlock
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Earth block press.png
Views:	38
Size:	361.0 KB
ID:	25786  
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 01:47 PM   #48 (permalink)
Redneck Ecomodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 421

Dent-Mobile - '99 Buick Lesabre
90 day: 22.68 mpg (US)

Red Rocket - '92 Geo Metro Base
Thanks: 11
Thanked 85 Times in 67 Posts
I'll admit I didn't go throw your entire build list, but stopped when you mentioned studs: steel studs are for non load-bearing walls only. That coupled with the cheaper cost of 2x4's and I really don't understand why they are used at all.

Do yourself a favor and use standard 2x4's, or if you are going to insulate spend the extra .30/ stud and do 2x6.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 03:33 PM   #49 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brazil
Posts: 1,268
Thanks: 7
Thanked 328 Times in 295 Posts
Well, Brazil have variable weather along the variable places, since it's the size of a continent. Some are very dry, others are wet or extreme wet (like near Amazon Forest), others are in the middle.
I found the cost, buying the bricks, it's 30% less for ecologic brick house than a standart brick house, but I don't know if it's for a home with finish plaster walls or not. Anyway the amount of plater of cement mass required it's reduced, since the ecplogic bricks have very good shape straight, well alighned and fine in edge gaps.

If you do your own ecologic bricks the cost for the bricks it's reduzed a lot, maybe 1/3 or 1/4 for brick's cost.

Portland cement on USA it's about double the price than on Brazil. Ecologic bricks are not good idea for very humid climates, but wikepedia said they can use varnish to protect the bricks.

"Finishing
Completed walls require either a reinforced bond beam or a ring beam on top or between floors and if the blocks are not stabilized, a plaster finish, usually stucco wire/stucco cement and/or lime plaster. Stabilized blocks can be left exposed with no outer plaster finish. In tropical environments, polycarbonate varnish is often used to provide an additional layer of wet-weather protection."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_earth_block

Maybe with two layers of such varnish, it can hold well. But I can't be sure. Maybe require a new layer of varnish after a given number of years. Also I'm not sure if the plaster finish for interior and exterior walls solves the problem of moisture.

Last edited by All Darc; 04-22-2019 at 04:07 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 03:42 PM   #50 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brazil
Posts: 1,268
Thanks: 7
Thanked 328 Times in 295 Posts
If architects and engeneers knew more about bamboo...



A lot of wood could be replaced with bamboo. Thress would be saved. Bamboo grows like crazy, the faster growing plant on Earth.

Money saving bamboo eco roof :




  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com