Tesla Model 3

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Correct me if I'm wrong,but I believe that the Chevy Bolt can come to a complete stop,with only the regen.

In L it can. The i3 does this as well, for relatively gentle stops. And the Smart EQ requires only the lightest touch of the brakes, for gentle stops.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by JSH

True but using the brakes gently at 7 mph or less is different than normal use. Both of my 2nd generation Prii had trouble with the rear brakes. They would lock the first stop after a rain unless I put the car in neutral and aggressively braked to break them loose. My father has had to replace the rear calipers on his 2010 Prius because they seized. I haven't had any issues with my Spark EV but it is only 3 years old and Oregon doesn't use salt.

Just because hybrids and EVs use their brakes less does't mean they are maintenance free. My Spark EV still requires the brake fluid to be replaced every 3 years like any other car. Steel brake lines will still rust and rubber ones will still age and fail, and caliper pistons will still seize.

IIRC, max regen in the 3 is something like 60-70kW compared to max output of 200+kW, and avoiding brake use takes more self control than most have.

[RedDevil]

According to Bloomberg Tesla has made about 222,222 Model 3s to date, 66,559 in this running quarter - already 5,000 past Q4 2018 production numbers (61,394) with 2 weeks to go.



Tesla's Q1 2019 car production will match the whole of 2017....

[ME_Andy]

Tesla stops offering yearly service because reliability is improving: https://www.google.com/amp/s/electre...intenance/amp/

[ME_Andy]

Also, I find it interesting that the Model 3 is somehow cheaper than the new Kia EV.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by ME_Andy

Also, I find it interesting that the Model 3 is somehow cheaper than the new Kia EV.

Makes sense to me. Kia wants to make money and they still have a full $7500 tax credit. All of the Korean EVs will cost the customer less after tax credit.

2019 Kia Niro EV: 239 mile range / $37,500
2020 Kia Soul EV: 243 mile range / $35,00 (estimated)
2019 Hyundai Kona EV: 258 mile range / $36,450
All use a 64 kWh battery and 201 hp / 291 lb-ft motor.

The 2020 Ioniq EV jumps to 168 mile range but the price is unknown.

The Koreans have made the jump from compliance cars to competitive EVs.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by JSH

Makes sense to me. Kia wants to make money and they still have a full $7500 tax credit. All of the Korean EVs will cost the customer less after tax credit.

2019 Kia Niro EV: 239 mile range / $37,500
2020 Kia Soul EV: 243 mile range / $35,00 (estimated)
2019 Hyundai Kona EV: 258 mile range / $36,450
All use a 64 kWh battery and 201 hp / 291 lb-ft motor.

The 2020 Ioniq EV jumps to 168 mile range but the price is unknown.

The Koreans have made the jump from compliance cars to competitive EVs.

I wouldn't go that far. They've certainly made the jump from short range compliance EVs to medium range compliance EVs, but those are still compliance cars. When they make a serious attempt at expanding production and offer comparative pricing in all 50 states, then they've stopped making compliance cars.

[RedDevil]

I'm not sure if the tax incentive is entirely fair, given the high level of cooperation between some companies. A Kia Niro and a Hyundai Kona share a lot.

But maybe this opens the way to a lot of new companies to milk the tax credits using existing rebadged cars. Thinking of TeslB, TeslC, etc.

[ME_Andy]

Originally Posted by JSH

Kia wants to make money

Given the small quantities they're manufacturing, I doubt they will make a profit.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

I wouldn't go that far. They've certainly made the jump from short range compliance EVs to medium range compliance EVs, but those are still compliance cars. When they make a serious attempt at expanding production and offer comparative pricing in all 50 states, then they've stopped making compliance cars.

Originally Posted by ME_Andy

Given the small quantities they're manufacturing, I doubt they will make a profit.

The USA is not the Korean's primary EV market.

Kia and Hyundai sold 90,860 EVs in 2018 (double 2017 sales). Most of those were sold in Korea and the EU. They are strategically sending available cars to their home market and to EU countries with strong EV sales due to government incentives.

In the USA they are restricting sales to US states with high EV sales. This means that some CARB states don't get EVs and some non-CARB states like Texas do. It makes no sense to offer EV sales in a places where training the service and sales staff to support EVs would cost more than the sales of the actual vehicles. Hyundai & Kia USA can sell every EV they are allocated in only 14 states so why would they expand to other states?

This is all designed to maximize profit. Hyundai and Kia buy a limited number of batteries each year from LG and SK. They send the limited number of EVs available to places with high sales to minimize the need to discount unsold units. Limiting the geographical areas that sell EVs also minimizes logistics and training costs.