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Old 03-10-2019, 12:33 PM   #981 (permalink)
JSH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Why wouldn't Tesla sell parts to independent shops?
You can just order parts yourself anyway.

https://insideevs.com/public-order-t...l-3-s-x-parts/
https://epc.teslamotors.com/
The prices in the catalog say "See Tesla"

Tesla is finally selling parts to customers because it is required by law in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
Regen's effectively gone by 5mph, so the brakes get used on every stop.
True but using the brakes gently at 7 mph or less is different than normal use. Both of my 2nd generation Prii had trouble with the rear brakes. They would lock the first stop after a rain unless I put the car in neutral and aggressively braked to break them loose. My father has had to replace the rear calipers on his 2010 Prius because they seized. I haven't had any issues with my Spark EV but it is only 3 years old and Oregon doesn't use salt.

Just because hybrids and EVs use their brakes less does't mean they are maintenance free. My Spark EV still requires the brake fluid to be replaced every 3 years like any other car. Steel brake lines will still rust and rubber ones will still age and fail, and caliper pistons will still seize.


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Old 03-10-2019, 12:55 PM   #982 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
All of those things apply to a vehicle 10 years old (or older). I wonder how difficult servicing a Tesla will be 10 years from now?
Yes they do. That is my point. The body / chassis of a Tesla is no different than any other car and will require the same level of repairs. Once the fleet gets into the millions even items that fail at less than 1% start adding up.

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Regardless, things like coolant changes are typically DIY affairs, and everything else should go to 200k miles like normal cars.
The average car owner does not work on their car. They take it to someone even for basic things like fluid changes.

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
If Tesla cars are sold in large enough quantity, aftermarket parts will start showing up for the more basic components. I expect something like a coolant pump was an off the shelf product rather than proprietary Tesla design. Even if aftermarket parts aren't available, junkyards will begin having parts available.
True but few independent shops are going to be willing to work on Tesla's unless they know they can get any part in a couple of days or less. No mechanic wants to tear apart a car and then find out the part they need isn't available. Scrounging used parts is what specialty shops do for vintage cars and they charge accordingly.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:28 PM   #983 (permalink)
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Getting the right power steering sensor for our Hyundai I10 - a high volume model - was such a nightmare that our dealer finally took apart a steering column from a new I10 from their inventory to repair ours... Good service, but it just goes to show legacy automakers don't have this fully covered.

My old Civic needed a new radiator twice. The first was pulled from a junkyard as 'it was cheaper that way and it was a waste to put a new radiator in an old car'.
The second radiator was new though, put in by a better dealer and served my car well for another 7 years or so. The repair was cheaper than the first, including the new part...

Half of the issues I've had with my cars were engine related. None of those would have happened with an EV.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:24 PM   #984 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Half of the issues I've had with my cars were engine related. None of those would have happened with an EV.
My experience has been the opposite.

The 03 Jetta Wagon TDI (10 years 245K miles)
Engine: Glow plugs / glow plug harness
Body: Shocks / struts ,control arm bushings, tie rods, both front window regulars, 2 fan resistor packs, fan blower motor, glove box latch, center console latch, rear ashtray, front tweeter, front and rear brake pads once

Note: Suspension was done at 100K miles. Almost all of the rest was after 200K miles

2005 Prius (10 years / 125K miles (12 years / 149K total)
Engine: Hybrid coolant pump, 3-way valve
Body: Needed struts, shocks, bushings but I didn't replace them

2009 Prius (6 years / 52K miles (10 years/ 115K miles total)
Engine: Hybrid coolant pump, 3-way valve
Body: Needed struts, stocks, bushings but I didn't replace them

2014: VW Jetta Wagon TDI (9 months / 9K miles (4 years / 39K miles total)
Engine: Nothing
Body: Side rear window defrost doesn't work, sunroof dust seal needs to be replaced.

2004 Chevy Astro (4 years / 10K miles (15 years / 86K miles total)
Engine: MAF sensor, fuel tank pressure sensor
Body: Rear calipers, rear brake lines, parking brake shoes, driver's mirror. None of the power locks work except for the hatch but I haven't fixed them yet. Needs new shocks.

2015 Chevy Spark EV (3 years / 22K miles)
EV Components: Recall to reprogram BMS
Body: Recall to reprogram airbag deployment

Vehicles with two year / mileage were purchased used. The first is my history, the second is total age and mileage.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:26 AM   #985 (permalink)
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I am pretty sure you can come to a complete stop using regenerative braking alone.

This article suggests they are just using normal friction and such forces, but why would an electric motor not be able to reduce rotation down to zero RPM? I have locked an electric motor so it would not turn, then fixed the short and it turned and worked fine afterward.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...pedal-driving/

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Old 03-13-2019, 11:18 AM   #986 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldjessee00 View Post
I am pretty sure you can come to a complete stop using regenerative braking alone.

This article suggests they are just using normal friction and such forces, but why would an electric motor not be able to reduce rotation down to zero RPM? I have locked an electric motor so it would not turn, then fixed the short and it turned and worked fine afterward.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...pedal-driving/
Just because you CAN stop a motor with regen braking, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. It's a matter of practical design, more weight, and more complexity. The friction brakes need to be functional anyway.

You can come to a complete stop on an electric motor using electricity only. Below 5 - 7 mph, the motor is not spinning fast enough to generate a high enough voltage to push energy back into the battery pack. I have read discussions about switching to charge a supercap bank below 10 mph, then using that energy to start the car off the line and switch back to the main battery bank. It seems complex for a small amount of energy.

In practice, it appears to take some battery power to stop the AC Induction or brushless DC motor. The details of flux vector control and how it changes near zero rpm are a bit above my head.

DC motors can have the leads shorted and be used as a brake. A resistor is normally required to limit the currents generated this way. Without a resistor, induced currents in DC motors get out of hand quickly.

AC motors in general slow down when the leads are shorted, but the braking is proportional to the current, which is proportional to the speed. Under 5 mph the rolling friction of the tires and the other friction losses in the drivetrain are sort of comparable to the regen braking forces.

It is not easy or convenient to short the leads on an AC motor when it is connected to a motor controller.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:37 AM   #987 (permalink)
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regen full stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldjessee00 View Post
I am pretty sure you can come to a complete stop using regenerative braking alone.

This article suggests they are just using normal friction and such forces, but why would an electric motor not be able to reduce rotation down to zero RPM? I have locked an electric motor so it would not turn, then fixed the short and it turned and worked fine afterward.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...pedal-driving/
Correct me if I'm wrong,but I believe that the Chevy Bolt can come to a complete stop,with only the regen.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:45 AM   #988 (permalink)
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Apparently Tesla does use the brakes for the last bit to keep them in regular use (wear is not much of a factor at those low speeds) and because of the permanent magnet motor type, which could otherwise make braking feel choppy at very low speeds.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...l-stop.123344/
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:47 PM   #989 (permalink)
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I have had seven cars in the last nineteen years. How many of those would I have still had with an electric car? Well, not the clutches and head gaskets. I would also not need to replace the timing belt, but would I be able to purchase a thirteen year-old car with several years left in it for $2,500?
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:18 PM   #990 (permalink)
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at this point, using a 13 yr old vehicle, you'd probably have to replace the traction pack and several starter batteries. On a volt in CA, YOU are 9 years over the emissions guarantee unless they were replaced prior to 10 years. Most other stuff is mileage and age failure and the same as other vehicles.

I would bet $2500 wont work for a running, intact EV.

The volt pack in the ranger is currently 8 years old, so far so good, but I cannot determine accurate SOC or exact capacity.

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