Tesla Model 3

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by JSH

The USA is not the Korean's primary EV market.

Kia and Hyundai sold 90,860 EVs in 2018 (double 2017 sales). Most of those were sold in Korea and the EU. They are strategically sending available cars to their home market and to EU countries with strong EV sales due to government incentives.

In the USA they are restricting sales to US states with high EV sales. This means that some CARB states don't get EVs and some non-CARB states like Texas do. It makes no sense to offer EV sales in a places where training the service and sales staff to support EVs would cost more than the sales of the actual vehicles. Hyundai & Kia USA can sell every EV they are allocated in only 14 states so why would they expand to other states?

This is all designed to maximize profit. Hyundai and Kia buy a limited number of batteries each year from LG and SK. They send the limited number of EVs available to places with high sales to minimize the need to discount unsold units. Limiting the geographical areas that sell EVs also minimizes logistics and training costs.

Hyundai and Kia only sold 12,992 EVs worldwide in 2017, and double that is still only about 26,000 EVs in 2018, which is roughly a month of Tesla sales from Q4 of last year.

According to market researcher IHS and the automobile industry on July 6, Hyundai and Kia sold a total of 12,992 electric vehicles including Soul EV and Ioniq Electric cars in the global market last year. The figure is a 50% spike from more the 8,561 units in 2015.

Hyundai-Kia Motors Rank Third in Sales of Electric Cars in World - 비즈니스코리아 - BusinessKorea

It's fine for a manufacturer to only target regions with large incentives to maximize profits, but those are still compliance EVs.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Hyundai and Kia only sold 12,992 EVs worldwide in 2017, and double that is still only about 26,000 EVs in 2018, which is roughly a month of Tesla sales from Q4 of last year.

12,992 was their 2016 sales volume.

Hyundai-Kia Among Global Top 10 in EV Sales for 1st Time - The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Business > Business

"Hyundai and affiliate Kia have been included in the world's top 10 electric vehicle makers for the first time after they entered the market in 2012.

The automakers sold a combined 90,860 EVs worldwide last year, ranking eighth in the world, market researcher EV Volumes said last week. They rose dramatically compared to 47,000 in 2017 and 13,000 in 2016."

EDIT: Hyundai / Kia's EV Sales:

2015 . 8,561
2016 12,992
2017 47,000
2018 90,860

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by JSH

12,992 was their 2016 sales volume.

Hyundai-Kia Among Global Top 10 in EV Sales for 1st Time - The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Business > Business

"Hyundai and affiliate Kia have been included in the world's top 10 electric vehicle makers for the first time after they entered the market in 2012.

The automakers sold a combined 90,860 EVs worldwide last year, ranking eighth in the world, market researcher EV Volumes said last week. They rose dramatically compared to 47,000 in 2017 and 13,000 in 2016."

EDIT: Hyundai / Kia's EV Sales:

2015 . 8,561
2016 12,992
2017 47,000
2018 90,860

That's better than I thought, but they and the rest of the industry still have a ways to go.

On the plus side, Tesla pushing their costs/margins down should force other manufacturers to discount their EVs to compete, and the ultimate loser in that situation are ICEs.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

That's better than I thought, but they and the rest of the industry still have a ways to go.

On the plus side, Tesla pushing their costs/margins down should force other manufacturers to discount their EVs to compete, and the ultimate loser in that situation are ICEs.

A long way to go for what? You seem to have a goal for cars to switch from ICE to EVs. Car manufacturers have a goal of making money.

Tesla is pushing their prices up, not down. They just raised prices on the Model Y by $1000 and the rest of their models will get a 3% price increase April 1st.

[Fat Charlie]

And if the top EV producer is raising its prices, it means the other EV producers are falling short. And missing out on a segment that could make them money.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

And if the top EV producer is raising its prices, it means the other EV producers are falling short. And missing out on a segment that could make them money.

Tesla is raising prices because they need to show a profit.

There is very little overlap between Teslas and other current EVs. Tesla makes pefmormance EVs whole the rest of the market is practical commuters.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by JSH

Tesla is raising prices because they need to show a profit.

There is very little overlap between Teslas and other current EVs. Tesla makes pefmormance EVs whole the rest of the market is practical commuters.

Little overlap indeed. Everyone knows you cannot do a commute with a Tesla.
Makes me wonder why I see more Teslas on my commute than all other EVs combined.

Actually I do well know why. A colleague of mine bought a Tesla Model S because his commute is over 100 km one way. Charges at home, even though we do have superchargers 200 meter away from our office.
He says that if you spend this much time in a car it is important that it is silent, comfortable and relaxing to drive; Autopilot takes away much of the strain of clogged commuting.

So, Teslas are the EV of choice for long commuters, so you do see them relatively often.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Little overlap indeed. Everyone knows you cannot do a commute with a Tesla.
Makes me wonder why I see more Teslas on my commute than all other EVs combined..

The Nissan Leaf and a Model 3 have nothing in common besides they are electric cars. One is a practical hatchback without any performance pretense and the other is a performance sedan.

You can commute in anything. I guy at my work commutes in an Audi R8. That doesn't mean most people are cross shopping a mid-engined sport car with a Honda Fit.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by JSH

The Nissan Leaf and a Model 3 have nothing in common besides they are electric cars. One is a practical hatchback without any performance pretense and the other is a performance sedan.

You can commute in anything. I guy at my work commutes in an Audi R8. That doesn't mean most people are cross shopping a mid-engined sport car with a Honda Fit.

I still don't see how this helps the Leaf. I see nothing that a Leaf does better than a Model 3, except maybe at price point. But even that is wearing thin.

Bear with me, I do not want to play down any EV. But there's no getting around Tesla putting extraordinarily competitive cars in the market.
It does not make the Leaf bad. I'd rather have a Leaf than any comparable ICEr.
But if I could get a Tesla instead for not too big a premium - well...

[redpoint5]

Well, that's why Teslas are selling in greater numbers.

The top reasons I see for people that chose a Bolt over a Model 3:

Can't afford a Model 3

Couldn't get a Model 3 when they were shopping for a car

Concerns of most functions being integrated into the display rather than dedicated switches

Prefer hatchback to sedan

No nearby service centers

Concerns about fit and finish

Concerns about availability of parts

Don't like the image Tesla projects

The Leaf will have a price advantage over Tesla and Chevy beginning in April. I expect sales to increase then, unless Nissan is limiting the numbers via pricing.

You can pick up a new Bolt for about $22,000 after federal credit, and perhaps less if you add state. If you happen to get a $36,500 (delivery fee) Tesla, it will cost $32,750 after $3,750 after federal credit. That's ten grand more than a Bolt.