Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-08-2017, 08:37 PM   #141 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,341
Thanks: 3,244
Thanked 4,432 Times in 3,525 Posts
The surprising thing I heard was the current episode of EVTV. Not just about the Model 3 (12/kWh at the Supercharger):
  • How Jack Rickard predicted in 1998 you could order a car on Internet and have it delivered to your house, then did that with his Model S.
  • How others see the Supercharger network as a 'cost', while people won't buy a car if they 'can't drive it to California'.
  • How nobody can catch Tesla at this point on batteries, charger network or solar panels.
  • How Jack has turned the corner on autonomous vehicles (better than humans on average will be good enough)
But the thing that really caught my attention is the Nvidia PX2.

The world's first Teraflop computer was built in 1996 in Beaverton, OR. It was 76 server cabinets. Every Tesla off the assembly line in the last year or two has had an Nvidia PX2 embedded in it. Those have eight Teraflops. He compares to a 5-year-old Power Mac ($20K fully loaded). It's worth 150 of those.

Mind blown. There has to be a wrecking yard that contains more computing power than some University.

  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
Fat Charlie (08-09-2017), NeilBlanchard (08-09-2017), RedDevil (08-09-2017)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-08-2017, 10:37 PM   #142 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,129

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.39 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.88 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,067
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
The surprising thing I heard was the current episode of EVTV. Not just about the Model 3 (12/kWh at the Supercharger):
  • How Jack Rickard predicted in 1998 you could order a car on Internet and have it delivered to your house, then did that with his Model S.
  • How others see the Supercharger network as a 'cost', while people won't buy a car if they 'can't drive it to California'.
  • How nobody can catch Tesla at this point on batteries, charger network or solar panels.
  • How Jack has turned the corner on autonomous vehicles (better than humans on average will be good enough)
But the thing that really caught my attention is the Nvidia PX2.

The world's first Teraflop computer was built in 1996 in Beaverton, OR. It was 76 server cabinets. Every Tesla off the assembly line in the last year or two has had an Nvidia PX2 embedded in it. Those have eight Teraflops. He compares to a 5-year-old Power Mac ($20K fully loaded). It's worth 150 of those.

Mind blown. There has to be a wrecking yard that contains more computing power than some University.
I'm always impressed by your breadth of knowledge and acceptance of change.

From an article I just read about the PX2, it sounds like they won't be required on all vehicles all of the time. Instead, the algorithms for various scenarios can be learned from the initially equipped vehicles, and the behavior downloaded to other "dumber" vehicles.

I wonder what the near-future of computing will look like considering the looming stall in transistor shrinking?
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 11:09 PM   #143 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,341
Thanks: 3,244
Thanked 4,432 Times in 3,525 Posts
Quote:
I'm always impressed by your breadth of knowledge and acceptance of change.
Can I quote you? My friend up-river thinks I'm a Luddite because I won't (join us!) sign up for Facebook. As if that stops them.

The developer kit is $15K, less than the Power Mac he referenced.

Quote:
I wonder what the near-future of computing will look like considering the looming stall in transistor shrinking?
It's qubits all the way down.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 12:05 AM   #144 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,129

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.39 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.88 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,067
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Can I quote you? My friend up-river thinks I'm a Luddite because I won't (join us!) sign up for Facebook.

It's qubits all the way down.
Up the Willamette?

I find myself oscillating between 2 unhealthy self images when cruising Facebook. If I see people traveling on grand adventures or accomplishing amazing things, I feel like a dull person. However, when I post my grand adventures on Facebook, I feel like I'm bragging.

Mostly for those reasons, and also because it's a waste of time, I don't post to FB or browse anymore. Instead I use it to contact people since "everyone" is on there. It's the easiest way to get in touch with foreigners I meet while traveling.

You seem to be an odd combination of both embracing of new technology, yet content with the simpler things like VW beetles.

While I don't always agree with you, you're no Luddite. You can quote me on that.

...and I don't believe in infinite regress theories; not with endless Earth carrying turtles, and not with unlimited computing power.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 12:19 AM   #145 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
roflwaffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,488

Camryaro - '92 Toyota Camry LE V6
90 day: 31.12 mpg (US)

Red - '00 Honda Insight

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius

3 - '18 Tesla Model 3
90 day: 152.47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 348
Thanked 119 Times in 78 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I believe the Model S has torque vectoring in software, rather than a limited-slip. Through the automatic braking system.
Yup. I think it's why the mpge drops so much when it gets in the hands of Motortrend or CR drivers. Lots of quick launches/stops = lots of wheel spin for the brakes to slow/stop = lots of electrons turning into brake dust.

I'm really hoping for a mechanical LSD of some sort, since that should really improve efficiency and feel, but we'll see. I checked some other manufacturer's CSIs and found some other EVs also had "Both" even though they clearly had an open diff (eg the RAV-4 EV), so it's probably just an error from whoever in Tesla submitted the CSI at the last minute to the EPA, but I can still hope.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 01:46 AM   #146 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,341
Thanks: 3,244
Thanked 4,432 Times in 3,525 Posts
Quote:
Up the Willamette?
Without giving too much away, it may or may not be the McKenzie.

Quote:
You seem to be an odd combination of both embracing of new technology, yet content with the simpler things like VW beetles.
I grew up around Mennonites. Closely related to the Amish; who, if they allow cars at all, prefer them 'murdered out, yo'.

roflwaffle — EVTV have the North American distribution of Quaife differential for the Tesla drivetrain. They're needed to eliminate the wheel sensors in a conversion, like their Vanagon double-cab.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 03:51 PM   #147 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 803 Times in 589 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
That said, I'm willing to suffer the inconvenience of less precise button pushing and tactile feedback for the sake of reduced cost and infinitely variable function placement.
Reduced cost? I don't know about that. Sure, it's cheap to draw icons on a screen, but you have to connect those icons to electromechanical actuators somehow. So for an example, is it cheaper to roll down your window with a screen icon, a switch by the window, or a handle?

Quote:
If modern cars had buttons for every function instead of touch screens, they would begin to resemble an airplane cockpit.
What's wrong with an airplane cockpit? My Cherokee's cockpit isn't all that complex - a couple of extra instruments and a navcomm, sure, but no shift lever, no turn signals, no windshield wiper...

You also need to ask how many of those functions of modern cars need to be acessible (or even should be accessible) while driving. Sure, an LCD display for diagnostics &c would be a fine thing (which could be done perfectly well with a laptop or tablet), but it should hide out of sight while the driver concentrates on driving.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 04:58 PM   #148 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,129

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.39 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 28.88 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,067
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Reduced cost? I don't know about that. Sure, it's cheap to draw icons on a screen, but you have to connect those icons to electromechanical actuators somehow. So for an example, is it cheaper to roll down your window with a screen icon, a switch by the window, or a handle?

You also need to ask how many of those functions of modern cars need to be acessible (or even should be accessible) while driving. Sure, an LCD display for diagnostics &c would be a fine thing (which could be done perfectly well with a laptop or tablet), but it should hide out of sight while the driver concentrates on driving.
It's likely cheaper for a car loaded with features to be touch-screen controlled vs mechanical switch. Take HVAC for instance. If the car has temperature control, then it's cheaper use the display to set the temperature than to have separate buttons and LCD display. As far as windows; it's probably cheaper to control by screen since transistors are cheaper than mechanical switches. Nobody uses manual cranks anymore, so that's a moot point. Every car I've had with manual windows has had at least 1 issue, either with the crank stripping, popping off, or the window falling. I've never had a single issue with automatic windows.

There are trade-offs by having most everything be controlled and displayed on a single screen, but the benefits likely outweigh the drawbacks. Besides, the vision of the Tesla is not to drive the vehicle, but to be a passenger. Perhaps the display is a bit premature, but not by much.

As an aside, the only manual control I prefer are seats. Waiting for motors to slowly wind a seat into position is frustrating. When I want the seat back, I want it back now, not 1 minute from now.

Finally, the type of people who buy a Tesla are the type that like automated design. People that want manual everything buy a 1969 Beetle.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 05:28 PM   #149 (permalink)
Duck duck duck
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,395

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 60.2 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.33 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,277
Thanked 1,745 Times in 1,131 Posts
I bet that one can simply tell the Model 3 to open or close the windows, no?
Or program a whole array of settings to invoke at command: vents off, windows down, sun visors down, seats reclining, Pet Sounds on the stereo: e.g. "beach mode"
System versus object thinking.

I held a broken window crank more than once. Power window buttons do fail too.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.14 Gm or 0.09 MM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 10:17 AM   #150 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,559

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,903
Thanked 2,584 Times in 1,607 Posts
The biggest downside of the touchscreen for everything, is they need motors for things like directing the air flow at the vents. But for things like the side view mirrors, which already have this on many cars, it has worked fine.

__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (08-10-2017)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com