Tesla Model 3

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

You could lump it and either live with it to remove it yourself, or look for another car that doesn't include the things you don't want.

Only if you live in Massachusetts:

Help Defend Our Right to Be From Massachusetts??? - EVTV Motor Verks

Right to Repair - Why it Matters... - EVTV Motor Verks

Tesla can turn your car off by remote control

All Your Drive Unit Are Belong to Us. - EVTV Motor Verks

Your Car Are Still Belong to Them - But CHAdeMO May Be More Than We Thought.... - EVTV Motor Verks

But Jack Rickard does love the Model S drivetrain. He put one (with a Quaife limited slip differential) in a double-cab Vanagon and now he's putting one in his Cadillac Escalade.

[roflwaffle]

You can remove it yourself regardless of where you live. If you're worried about Tesla shutting off your car, pull the sim chip and/or cell modem. Tesla can refuse to sell you parts or service your vehicle after that, but you can still do what you want with a car you purchased.

[freebeard]

Did you read the articles? Suppose what you want is to make a stretch limo? That was the first case that surfaced in 2014.

The Model 3, on-topically, is likely to share the corporate culture.

OTOH it's a rear-engine rear-driver just as [deity] intended.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

A bit like Apple does. Tesla compares to iOS like all the other cars compare to Windows. So it takes some getting used to and you are forced to do some things in a certain way, but in the end it is easier and more pleasant to use and it will crash less often

Which is just pure BS. There's a good reason Apple has never had more than a small fraction of the computer market: its OS has always (well, since the first Mac) been difficult & unpleasant to use - unless you really, really enjoy making your new Mac say "Yabba dabba doo!" every few minutes. (First and last Mac user in an engineering department I once worked in.)

There are also a number of people - I'm one - for whom touch screens simply don't work reliably. Anyone with an artificial hand is obvious, but some of us just have different skin capacitance or something. So if I try to use a tablet, say, there will be times when it does not respond at all, other times when one touch activates multiple functions. Imagine that happening as you're driving down a winding mountain road. Or your dog sticking his nose on the screen...

There's a reason most car (and airplane) controls & gauges have evolved to work certain ways, and have built-in touch/force feedback. For one, you don't have to take your eyes off the road to use them, or to see important information.

[Fat Charlie]

Aside from the publicity electrics are getting and the increased production, I'm just grinning about the headlines that their stock went up 6%, putting hedge funds that shorted it over $600m in the hole.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

There are also a number of people - I'm one - for whom touch screens simply don't work reliably.

There's a reason most car (and airplane) controls & gauges have evolved to work certain ways, and have built-in touch/force feedback. For one, you don't have to take your eyes off the road to use them, or to see important information.

Agreed. I miss the keyboard on my Blackberry because I could type without looking, and there were far less typos.

That said, I'm willing to suffer the inconvenience of less precise button pushing and tactile feedback for the sake of reduced cost and infinitely variable function placement. If modern cars had buttons for every function instead of touch screens, they would begin to resemble an airplane cockpit.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Which is just pure BS. There's a good reason Apple has never had more than a small fraction of the computer market: its OS has always (well, since the first Mac) been difficult & unpleasant to use - unless you really, really enjoy making your new Mac say "Yabba dabba doo!" every few minutes. (First and last Mac user in an engineering department I once worked in.)

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree.

Apple's Human Interface Guidelines published in 1984 set a standard (that MS Windows aped, just with a white-on-black cursor instead of black-on-white.). Market share was down to MS collusion with the alphabet agencies. Apple has now joined them. Apple Preview lost the Save As... function, IOS is a closed silo, no VPN for you in China, and on and on....

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Which is just pure BS. There's a good reason Apple has never had more than a small fraction of the computer market: its OS has always (well, since the first Mac) been difficult & unpleasant to use (etc)

I could tell about my own exploits, but I rather refer to how others experience it.
Case in point: my parents.

Dad had a string of desktop PC's using Windows 3.11 up to XP. Then a top of the line 17" laptop with Vista.
He never got it. We had to help him all the time and many times I had to spend hours on the phone or jump in the car to aid him.

Then at 79 years of age he bought an iMac and a iPad for good measure.
Mom and dad both did a handful of 1 hour Apple courses, and they now happily surf, mail, edit text and photos, install all kinds op apps - more active than ever - with no support from me or my brother-in-law.

About the Apple-Tesla analogy:
The point I was trying to make is that Apple, and Tesla, have a clear, holistic view of how their appliance should be operated and facilitate that as best as they can.
The Windows platform and many car controls are a bunch of loose systems, developed independently of each other, with many different ways to do the same thing.
While these systems get more integrated and interactive over time, that process is spurred on by necessity, not by initial design.

Conventional car manufacturers make cars. They see their cars as objects. These objects are more or less stuffed with modular systems that do a certain thing in its own peculiar way. It may not have relevance to other systems, but it honors its legacy.

Tesla makes a car system. The internet, the driver, the environment are part of the system as they interact with the car. That sets it apart and makes it hard to emulate.

[redpoint5]

Agree with RD.

Apple is great as long as what you want to do has already been integrated into the design, and not so great if you want to go outside those boundaries.

I see a certain similarity between Apple and Tesla. For instance, Tesla built a charging network. In a similar way, Apple has built a file handling infrastructure (iTunes).

[freebeard]

What can't you do in the Terminal?

MacOS is a proprietary user interface built on BSD Unix. Windows offers a Linux sandbox and they're trying to kill the Command Line:

https://www.google.com/search?q=comm...e+from+Windows

Mac Mini is the only Apple product that ships without a camera or microphone, which reduces the attack surface.

Ontopic: What do you think of the flat screen mounted like a rear-view mirror on the dash?