Test: Alternator vs. no alternator = 10% MPG gain @ 70 km/h

[RedDevil]

It is the lights that go first.

My old Virago had a faulty charge circuit and would easily blow the headlight at 17 Volt.
The tail and signal lights held up well enough but the bike would stall unpredictably.
I just got rid of it.

[Thorium-Synfuel]

Alright, think I found a combination that should be low cost and increase the longevity of the battery pack.

Construction of a 24 V 'PowerCan' to charge a tesla for 9 extra miles travel range. Some 2.2kWh of energy in a suitcase from 196 Sony VTC6 18650 cells

This idea for a portable "gas can" to get a Tesla car, out of the woods, is essentially what we need, at half the size. So 12V(16V) instead of 24V(29V).

A plastic tool box, half the size depicted, fitted into the "trunk" of a typical fossil fueled car, would be the best place to keep the cells cool during the operation and keep from heat damage. Which if you know about these batteries, they can heat up from the internal resistance of each cell, placing them next to a large engine block, under the hood. Is sort of asking for a fire. Keeping the lithium battery pack in a plastic tool box and fitting it to the trunk. Better all around.

So some 100, 18650 cells is more than enough. To delete the alternator.

For larger car needs. Probably above a 3 cylinder and tested all the way to a V6.

To make deleting the alternator worthwhile.

You might complement this with the need for a 6 in series ultra capacitor pack, that fits in the place of your old lead acid battery.6 series 2.7V 400 Farad, boost pack, hand crank for 10 mins start a V6 car

With these 6 caps complementing the ~100 chemical batteries, the capacitors are rated for near hundreds of thousands of start cycles, though while having limited energy storage. The Capacitors are a better fit for the high high amp demand for electric torque, in engine starting. With the auxillary power unit, the chemical batteries, for dedicated energy storage, to run the car electronics and recharge the Cap-bank, without the demand(slow damage), that starting directly from the chemical batteries will cause.


The Capacitors should extend the longevity of the chemical battery pack and would add some 70 dollars to your build in materials. If this is truly worthwhile and the alternative use of that money toward adding an additional 70 dollars of extra chemical batteries works out better?

Only years of testing would tell.

Though with tesla(elon musk) buying Maxwell capacitors recently, the combination may win after a few years and as a guide, for our less demanding usage case, it has been done before with capacitors and a lithium battery pack, undersized though it is and re-charging off the alternator. The premise is the same. Just make the battery pack larger. To some 100 Ah from the lowly 10 Ah used. hybrid super capacitor + 10Ah Lithium car battery, trunk installation and engine starting

However, if you're like me. Right now, the easiest and most affordable fit for a 3 cylinder geo metro equivalent. Is a pure chemical battery build. Following the 1st video moreso than the other 2.

However to end. The hand crank solution does seem appealing if attached to a foldable bicycle, you'd never be without a lithium battery recharge, even if the entire electric grid goes down.

[teoman]

That is more or less the system I have in mind.

[Mikes1992]

Wouldn't an alternator delete stop your ability to use engine stop/start at traffic lights and/or in slow moving traffic?

[teoman]

Why would it?

[Thorium-Synfuel]

This is also an area that adding flexible ETFE coated solar panels, actually does make sense and wouldn't be the bit of a gimmick, that it is on a dedicated electric vehicle. Totally undersized by a factor of 10 if not more in that roll.

While for trickle charging your storage battery, our alternator delete requirements, it's more than adequate.

Ultimately. As Ireland is mostly a fossil gas network grid. I'm looking to go about subversively challenging the wisdom of all-electric cars and making a kind of geo metro/fiat flat twin fuelled with fossil gas, without any alternator parasitic load.

As I'd also think we'd be in the territory of greenest car awards, alongside most affordable to buy,

For cold, damp, windy climates. Were windshield defogging, cabin heating is constant for 6 months out of the year. You kind of definitely see where the internal combustion engine still shines. Doing what electric batteries will always struggle with. Heating.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Mikes1992

Wouldn't an alternator delete stop your ability to use engine stop/start at traffic lights and/or in slow moving traffic?

Not unless the starter is also the alternator (I've never seen one, but I'm sure they exist somewhere). The car should be able to start from the battery (which isn't getting charged by the alternator).

Originally Posted by Thorium-Synfuel

As Ireland is mostly a fossil gas network grid. I'm looking to go about subversively challenging the wisdom of all-electric cars and making a kind of geo metro/fiat flat twin fuelled with fossil gas, without any alternator parasitic load.

I like your idea, however I think Ireland is still close to an ideal place to own an EV at only 300 miles long, and 170 miles wide. That said, I don't know where things are located or what local travel looks like. Perhaps trips of over 200 miles are common?

[M_a_t_t]

Originally Posted by Mikes1992

Wouldn't an alternator delete stop your ability to use engine stop/start at traffic lights and/or in slow moving traffic?

If you have/had an automatic, it would limit it. I don't usually EoffC in my car because I have to start it with the key and after a drive home from work doing PNG and EoffC the battery is significantly lower than if I EonC.

[Thorium-Synfuel]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I like your idea, however I think Ireland is still close to an ideal place to own an EV at only 300 miles long, and 170 miles wide. That said, I don't know where things are located or what local travel looks like. Perhaps trips of over 200 miles are common?

You're almost absolutely correct on size, the island would be an ideal place for electric if we had a nuclear-hydro grid like France.

It's instead with fossil gas getting burnt to do the charging, the well-to-wheel efficiency, or wisdom of using as is presently the case, some 80% fossil gas to generate electricity, only to dump the "waste heat" to the environment, all to charge an EV car. The operators of which, as nearly the first port of call, put the heating on, to warm the cabin.

Though right now, deleting the alternator(unplugging the fuse that connects it the to electrical load) is the first thing to do.

Having a flat, low "suitcase/tool box" sized housing, were the lithium ions live, seems doable.

Presently. In need of a new lead acid battery anyway at the moment, so while it will come out at some 5 times more expensive than a store bought starter-battery.

It'll pay itself back in under a year of commuter driving.

With lighting/headlights a potential issue running at 16V, anyone recommend a good HID or LED replacement, to save on draining the battery?

[sregord]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Assuming it's turning at the same speed as when driven by the engine, it'll use the same amount of fuel regardless of hooking it up to a wheel or a turbine (which won't work - it would require a really big swept area). There's no free lunch.

The wheel-driven idea would cause it to be under-driven at low speeds, so battery voltage may drop and you may save fuel at those times, but the load on the alternator will be higher as the RPM increases and it puts the lost energy back into the battery, so fuel consumption will go up. I can't see any real savings from that approach.

Also worth emphasizing again: discharging a starting battery will dramatically shorten its life. Going alternator-less may be an effective efficiency mod, but it's definitely not a money saving mod unless you have a source of free or cheap batteries.

I’m late to arrive to this discussion. & I’m not ultimately looking for 40-60 mpg.
..but a motorhome...Ford V10- F53. Currently getting 8 mpg..at 55mph. I have replaced a dysfunctional house gas generator with 690ah 12 vdc(6x 6vdc deep cycle batteries), 400watts PV solar, & charge control. When camping “off-grid”, the chassis/starting battery can be disconnected or be charged(by the sun) from the house system. If I’m not beating up the system, & we're not in a cave, its all charged up by noon.
Having read this forum, It seems that a cleverly automated or manual switch on the alternator power lead(off up hill&level-on downhill) could be a fuel saver…. 10% would bring this up to- wow -almost 9 mpg.