"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!

[cfg83]

Hello -

Just to add context (for the lurkers) to the series/parallel debate :

Hybrid vehicle drivetrain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CarloSW2

[5EFE]

I certainly hope the statement "The Volt will never be built" is true. That car is little more than a public relations stunt. My apology to any General Motors fans, but in my opinion any company that for 30+ years builds products, 95% of which are rubbish, then goes bankrupt because of it's own management stupidity and begs for welfare money from the taxpayers to support their absurdly inefficient way of operating, then assaults the American public from which they literally deceived, took advantage of and robbed with gloating and we're-better-than-everyone-else advertisements without a single apology.... deserves to die and stay dead.

Volt advertising: lies, lies, lies. 230 miles per gallon? An electric vehicle doesn't get miles per gallon. And if it's going to have a gasoline generator on it to charge the motor, what's the point? And like everything GM has made in recent memory, it's cheap looking and ugly. Will the construction of the Volt be as environmentally destructive as a typical hybrid I wonder? Just curious.

Yes, the idea of a production built, all electric vehicle designed by actual engineers and backed by a warranty is a very nice one indeed, but when and if such a vehicle is produced, I hope and predict it will not be by GM, but rather a company such as Toyota, who have relied on engineering rather than memories of the past to sell vehicles. After the atrocity that was the CARS program, not a single auto maker or dealership will ever see a cent of my money anyway.

I apologize if my rant (or run-on sentences) offend anyone.

[theunchosen]

Jammer,

You're right that the rest of the country is not as Chevy friendly these days. In Northeast TN I see way more Honda's than anything else. We have three to four dealerships within thirty miles depending on what part of the tricities you live in. Any time I pull up to a stop light I have a habit of counting what manufacturer is represented. Most of the time there are multiple Honda's and just one of everything else.

This is clearly not representative of the rest of the country because Toyota's sales numbers are higher so I am sure there is a region where everyone drives a Toyota and has never heard of anything else...

The volt's MPG and efficiency are definitely a stunt that most of us here recognize. MPGe shouldn't be measured in equivalent energy stored(how they got the really high 230) but in a conversion of cost/mile or if you prefer a less useful metric CO2/mile.

They didn't do that on purpose. 230 mpg sounds pretty impressive even here in the hypermile community, out there it sounds astounding. When compared to the cost/mile of a diesel or a sipper gasser its not all that impressive. The volt probably gets less than 1 kwhr for 33 miles like most of the EVs here get close to. Its just too heavy and too big(CDa). That kept in mind with charging inefficiencies, battery depletion/lifetime, the car to go 40 miles on EV reliably would need at least 10 KWhr or the batteries woul go belly up after 2 years.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by theunchosen

When compared to the cost/mile of a diesel or a sipper gasser its not all that impressive.

Except (as I have to keep pointing out :-() to the target market cost per mile is not really the important number. It's CO2 (or sometimes dollars not sent to jihadists) per mile. The same people who install their own solar panels, or pay a premium for "green" electricity, are going to be the ones buying the first Volts, just as they bought the first Priuses.

Now IF GM can use that first market to work out bugs and bring down the cost, then the technology will propagate to other platforms, just as hybrid tech is doing. I think it'd be a great match for a work pickup, for instance. Add a 120 V inverter, and have construction site power.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by 5EFE

And like everything GM has made in recent memory, it's cheap looking and ugly. [EDIT]..I apologize if my rant (or run-on sentences) offend anyone.

The ONLY offense I take is the notion that GM cars are "cheap looking and ugly". Your not the only person that I have heard say this though, but I must beg to differ. I am very proud of my Chevy and have many pictures of it in my profile here, of which I would guess you would likely see the inside of the car as very cheap and ugly. Frankly I drive a car to get me safely and cheaply from point A to point B with reliability. I do not choose a car for luxury. (But I MUST have a quality Stereo, which was standard with my car) However, if I was looking for a Luxury car, GM has some kick-ass looking Buicks and Cadillacs that are getting much improved reviews, even by sources I strongly feel have a axe to grind with GM. Also the avg MPG of most GM cars is already pretty good.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Except (as I have to keep pointing out :-() to the target market cost per mile is not really the important number. It's CO2 (or sometimes dollars not sent to jihadists) per mile. The same people who install their own solar panels, or pay a premium for "green" electricity, are going to be the ones buying the first Volts, just as they bought the first Priuses.

Now IF GM can use that first market to work out bugs and bring down the cost, then the technology will propagate to other platforms, just as hybrid tech is doing. I think it'd be a great match for a work pickup, for instance. Add a 120 V inverter, and have construction site power.

"the target market cost per mile is not really the important number"

Whaa???

Money matters and Price SELLS! That's why China is killing America's economy right now. The COST PER MILE (AND THE CAR"S STICKER PRICE), in my personal humble opinion IS why The Prius is looking at production of 400,000 cars in model year 2010, NOT BECAUSE of it's exhaust. EPA 50MPG SELLS! I do not think anyone buys a Prius for it's UGLY looks. (no offense). -But I sort of like the high-tech "moon-mobile" look!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by theunchosen

Jammer,

You're right that the rest of the country is not as Chevy friendly these days. In Northeast TN I see way more Honda's than anything else. We have three to four dealerships within thirty miles depending on what part of the tricities you live in. Any time I pull up to a stop light I have a habit of counting what manufacturer is represented. Most of the time there are multiple Honda's and just one of everything else.

This is clearly not representative of the rest of the country because Toyota's sales numbers are higher so I am sure there is a region where everyone drives a Toyota and has never heard of anything else...

The volt's MPG and efficiency are definitely a stunt that most of us here recognize. MPGe shouldn't be measured in equivalent energy stored(how they got the really high 230) but in a conversion of cost/mile or if you prefer a less useful metric CO2/mile.

They didn't do that on purpose. 230 mpg sounds pretty impressive even here in the hypermile community, out there it sounds astounding. When compared to the cost/mile of a diesel or a sipper gasser its not all that impressive. The volt probably gets less than 1 kwhr for 33 miles like most of the EVs here get close to. Its just too heavy and too big(CDa). That kept in mind with charging inefficiencies, battery depletion/lifetime, the car to go 40 miles on EV reliably would need at least 10 KWhr or the batteries woul go belly up after 2 years.

I have often been down to north east Tennessee, near Bristol. I do see more Hondas down there, but to be honest I see a more deserve market of cars in general there. Here in east/mid Kentucky We still have mostly "The Big Three" (small 3?) cars and pickups on the roads, with the slight edge given to Chevy, based on a recent count of cars I did in Morehead Ky recently. However we are starting to see more Hondas and Toyotas here. But we still have a lot of "good ole boys" here that will always be either Chevy or Ford folks, with a mix of Dodge Pickup truck lovers (despite some of these trucks being big-gas hogs, some owners advise me they get 9 MPG at times!Newer trucks seem better).

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by Jammer

"the target market cost per mile is not really the important number"

Whaa???

Money matters and Price SELLS!

Its a $40k luxury car. Price per mile is irrelevant. Good luck marketing a $40k Chevy. And it better be a luxury car. If they are going to try to market this thing as an economy car, they're screwed. This thing should have had a Cadillac badge from day 1. The real competitor to the Chevy Volt is the lexus 250h

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Its a $40k luxury car. Price per mile is irrelevant

Oh, it is?

So if I have $40,000 I can buy one right now?

We must WAIT until the car is for sale before we will know it's price. Until then the price of a Volt is speculation based on what a handful of GM people guessed when asked by the media.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Price per mile is irrelevant

Price per mile is ALWAYS VERY relevant. Well, unless maybe your a truck driver that gets the fuel billed to another owner. For around $13,000 I bought a new Chevy that gets well over 40MPG, as much as nearly 46 off the main highway. Yet I know of some customers that paid almost double that price for a car with a higher EPA (My car's EPA is 37 highway). The people I have meet that buy high mileage cars often point out their gas mileage first thing. I have yet to hear one of them brag to me about their car's Co2 emissions (Sorry- that point was directed at another member's POV)