"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

And in the process missing the real point, which is that the Insight was never intended to turn a profit.

You have a firm grasp of the obvious.

Nobody builds a cheap aluminum car because its impossible to turn a profit.

[Frank Lee]

Global Electric Motorcars : GEM Vehicle Models : Standard Features

Global Electric Motorcars : Price Your Own

Welded aluminum extrusion spaceframe NEV starting $7395

[Christ]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Dude... who cares. I was talking about the first gen INSIGHT. The insight and the NSX shared the same assembly line and manufacturing process. I was making a point of the fact that you can't turn a profit selling aluminum cars for $20k. Same story with the Audi A1 from a few years back. Brilliant on paper but it doesn't make financial sense.

If you weren't talking about the NSX not being able to turn a profit, then why did you mention the fact that it wasn't able to turn a profit? Hm... that makes sense.

[cfg83]

Frank -

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Global Electric Motorcars : GEM Vehicle Models : Standard Features

Global Electric Motorcars : Price Your Own

Welded aluminum extrusion spaceframe NEV starting $7395

I don't think it's impossible to turn a profit using aluminum, but it doesn't seem right to me to use an NEV in comparison with a regular automobile. It's an African vs European Swallow thing, I think.

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

It's the first thing that came to mind.

How bout the Corvette Z06? Moneymaker?

http://dana.mediaroom.com/file.php/1...na_article.pdf

[cfg83]

Frank -

That's what I'm talkin' about.

CarloSW2

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by tjts1

You have a firm grasp of the obvious.

Not so obvious. The point is that it's senseless to hold the Insight up as an example to show that it's impossible to turn a profit on aluminum-bodied cars, because it was never intended to be profitable.

Nobody builds a cheap aluminum car because its impossible to turn a profit.

Something I have problems understanding, at a pretty fundamental level, because by that same logic beer cans should still be made out of steel :-)

The real lesson here is that if you want to turn a profit building cars, then you have to either build lots of them, or sell each one at a high price. If you introduce a new technology, whether it's aluminum bodies or plug-in hybrid powertrains, then you have to either charge high prices for the first ones (Volt, NSX, Tesla), or eat a big chunk of R&D costs for the first few years (Insight, Prius).

[Jammer]

Well, I must admit, it now appears GM is going full speed forward with building The Volt. The way they were talking I had some doubts, thus this thread.... Now I am hearing from the workers strong rumors of GM shifting jobs around and getting ready to re-tool for The Volt etc... Some jobs from Pontiac Mi are said to be transferred to a plant in Flint, Mi where my father used to work. Sad to say though, that there not talking about A LOT of jobs, a hundred or two here, a hundred or two there, nothing that will put a dent in the Michigan economy where many of these jobs will be. I also heard something about some Temp workers being planed for- that's something the OLD GM would of never done because the UAW would of stood against it. But now many new changes are in effect.

I still wonder how the news of GM selling a car at a loss will resonate with the taxpayers of US and Canada. I'm not sure the average person can grasp the reasoning of selling a car at a loss for a couple years before making a profit on it.

[theunchosen]

I Can easily grasp the idea of selling anything at a loss... initially. If this car could eventually turn a profit then that might make sense. But I don't think it can. Realistically this car has to compete with BMW, Merc, Acura, Lexus, Infinity and a few other select offerings in teh luxury car category.

For the money people who shell out 40K for a car are interested typically in a few different things. Mostly they are interested in what they call sports cars. Unfortunately these cars carry none of the sport aspect and adopt the luxury out of an SUV and maintain the weight of a car. It is sporty in the sense compared to a tanker, but its not really that sporty when compared to purpose built sport cars(WRX, EVO, etc..) So to hook buyers in that tax bracket its going to have to offer similar styling and compete against the big name luxury badges.

The other group of individuals who spend upwards of 35K for a car are people interested in something fast. I am not even going to explain this point.

I really don't see too many individuals cashing in their SUVs and getting a volt. I don't see ANY trading in a BMW, Merc, Lexus, or Acura and getting a Chevy. I also don't see very many new-comers to the luxury market being terribly interested in the Volt. Lastly, the Volt is outside the price range of most hybrid buyers.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by theunchosen

I Can easily grasp the idea of selling anything at a loss... initially. If this car could eventually turn a profit then that might make sense. But I don't think it can. Realistically this car has to compete with BMW, Merc, Acura, Lexus, Infinity and a few other select offerings in teh luxury car category.

For the money people who shell out 40K for a car are interested typically in a few different things. Mostly they are interested in what they call sports cars. Unfortunately these cars carry none of the sport aspect and adopt the luxury out of an SUV and maintain the weight of a car. It is sporty in the sense compared to a tanker, but its not really that sporty when compared to purpose built sport cars(WRX, EVO, etc..) So to hook buyers in that tax bracket its going to have to offer similar styling and compete against the big name luxury badges.

The other group of individuals who spend upwards of 35K for a car are people interested in something fast. I am not even going to explain this point.

I really don't see too many individuals cashing in their SUVs and getting a volt. I don't see ANY trading in a BMW, Merc, Lexus, or Acura and getting a Chevy. I also don't see very many new-comers to the luxury market being terribly interested in the Volt. Lastly, the Volt is outside the price range of most hybrid buyers.

Please do not forget Cadillac owners as well.