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Old 03-28-2021, 12:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Purpose built race cars don't have ABS and stability control to brake individual corners as needed specifically designed to help novice drivers.

There is more to driving than going around corners. A car with rear axle bias has more braking power in a straight line.

Yes, learning to drive a RWD car properly is different than driving a FWD car properly. People used to know how to drive RWD cars because that is all we had. A few sessions in a snowing parking lot does wonders for learning how to control oversteer and even how to steer with the throttle. I learned to drive in RWD vehicles and I will take oversteer over understeer any day.
Let me put it this way. I do really appreciate you trying to convince me to consider a RWD vehicle. Maybe you'll eventually convince me and I'll have a cool looking electric VW some day.

It's just that my experience with them hasn't been the greatest. Those and AWD vehicles. Two of the worst oversteering vehicles I've had were an AWD Chevy Astro and a 4WD Dodge Durango (even in 4WD). I've driven lots of RWD vehicles and didn't have a problem. But put my wife in one glare ice and, well let's just say it didn't turn out that well. But she's never gotten stuck or slid off the road in a FWD ever.

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Old 03-28-2021, 03:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Let me put it this way. I do really appreciate you trying to convince me to consider a RWD vehicle. Maybe you'll eventually convince me and I'll have a cool looking electric VW some day.
I suspect you've been abducted and replaced by a clone since last December.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post638247

I can't deny that black ice did a number on my Superbeetle. On the 1958 Canadian [electric conversion candidate] I'd like to put a front axle beam extender on it that has a battery pack to bias the weight forward.

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Old 03-28-2021, 11:24 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
Purpose built race cars aren't built for novice drivers. They're built for professionals. Whether they have stability control or not depends on the rules off each particular race. That also aren't usually driven on snow and ice unless built for that.
The basics of driving dynamics are the same at any speed. Snow reduces grip and lowers the speed at which a car is on the edge of control. (One of the reasons that a snowy parking lot is an excellent training tool. Better to learn car control at 25 mph with nothing around to hit than at 55 mph on a windy mountain road or 180 mph at Le Mans)

This is another reason that snow tires are key. (You are driving in the winter with snow tires on all 4 wheels - right?)


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Braking in a straight line only works if you have a straight line to brake in. Usually you brake hard because there's an obstacle that your may need to swerve to avoid. Plus o lot of roads where I live are windy mountainous passes with tight switchbacks. It's kind of hard to brake in a straight line going around tight switchbacks.
The vast majority of driving is done it cities - maybe not where you live but in the USA in general. The most common place for collisions is intersections where someone pulls out in front of another driver and most drivers just hammer the brakes.


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Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
Let me put it this way. I do really appreciate you trying to convince me to consider a RWD vehicle. Maybe you'll eventually convince me and I'll have a cool looking electric VW some day.
I don't need to convince you. I'm just happy that automakers are moving back to RWD and soon I'll be able to buy RWD family vehicles again. I've never liked FWD vehicle but I was forced into them if I wanted to buy a reasonably priced vehicle.

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It's just that my experience with them hasn't been the greatest. Those and AWD vehicles. Two of the worst oversteering vehicles I've had were an AWD Chevy Astro and a 4WD Dodge Durango (even in 4WD). I've driven lots of RWD vehicles and didn't have a problem. But put my wife in one glare ice and, well let's just say it didn't turn out that well. But she's never gotten stuck or slid off the road in a FWD ever.
My wife does fine with our 2WD Astro van. Of course she learned to drive in a 1987 2WD Ford Ranger longbed in Michigan. No ABS, no traction control, no stability control, and about 35% of the vehicle weight on the rear axle.

That is what makes most RWD vehicles harder to driver - poor weight balance. Most ICE vehicles have front weight bias because the engine is in the front. That isn't an issue for EVs.
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Old 03-28-2021, 12:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I suspect you've been abducted and replaced by a clone since last December.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post638247
LOL! Ya, my wife hated that Super Beetle. She wouldn't drive it if that was the only car we had. That was part of the reason I got rid of it. That and we didn't have kids yet. And yes, it did oversteer terribly in the winter. It was a fun project though.

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This is another reason that snow tires are key. (You are driving in the winter with snow tires on all 4 wheels - right?)
Yes siree! The Astro had snow tires. The Dodge didn't. My Avalon has a set of dedicated rims with snow tires. My 1985 VW Golf Diesel also had a set of dedicated rims with snow tires. Both the Golf and Avalon had/have a set of snow chains I carry around too. I had a set of rims I was going to put snow tires on for the Super Beetle too but had a hard time finding snow tires for it. My 1993 Mazda 323 also had a set of rims with snow tires on them.

I always look for a spare set of rims and put snow tires on them.

That little Golf was a tank in the winter with snow tires and chains, even without any traction control. I even pulled out a Ford Expedition one day that was stuck in a downhill driveway. Also a Subaru from a snowbank. Not bad for a car that had cost me $600. Again, I liked being able to steer my driving wheels.

Mind you it snows a lot here. Last Monday I was driving through a snow storm over Monarch Pass (over 11,000ft) on my way to Denver in the Avalon. There way a passenger vehicle traction law (all vehicles must have snow rated tires or put on chains or be a AWD vehicle which I don't buy that that last part that AWD vehicles don't need snow tires/chains). It had snowed the entire way to that big city, over 200 miles one way. On the way back Monarch Pass was closed for avalanche removal and we had to wait a couple hours in the Avalon.

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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
I don't need to convince you. I'm just happy that automakers are moving back to RWD and soon I'll be able to buy RWD family vehicles again. I've never liked FWD vehicle but I was forced into them if I wanted to buy a reasonably priced vehicle.
I just want a real life comparison to assure me this is the right choice, not a "RWD works on dry pavement and if you live where it snows 9 months a year you got to pay several grand more for an AWD vehicle that you've never needed before" approach. It just seems like the world would like to force me into an AWD crossover. But I hate crossovers and don't want to spend extra on AWD.

Anyhow, enough said about RWD.

I do really like the VW ID-BUZZ looks and function. There aren't a lot of minivans in general out there and much less electric minivans. With the family growing this might be a great vehicle if the kids aren't all grown up by the time I can afford one.
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Old 03-28-2021, 01:44 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I just can't see that visor sticking around for the production version... that thing has to be aerodynamic poison.
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Old 03-28-2021, 02:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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What visor? I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out.


https://www.automobilemag.com/news/v...w-first-drive/

Do you know why the original Type II gained that overhang in the first place? My 1954 microbus didn't have one.


https://external-content.duckduckgo....6pid%3DApi&f=1
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Old 03-28-2021, 03:18 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Do you know why the original Type II gained that overhang in the first place?
That was meant to improve air flow through the cabin, working as an inlet for external air.
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Old 03-28-2021, 03:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
Yes siree! The Astro had snow tires. The Dodge didn't. My Avalon has a set of dedicated rims with snow tires. My 1985 VW Golf Diesel also had a set of dedicated rims with snow tires. Both the Golf and Avalon had/have a set of snow chains I carry around too. I had a set of rims I was going to put snow tires on for the Super Beetle too but had a hard time finding snow tires for it. My 1993 Mazda 323 also had a set of rims with snow tires on them.

I always look for a spare set of rims and put snow tires on them.

That little Golf was a tank in the winter with snow tires and chains, even without any traction control. I even pulled out a Ford Expedition one day that was stuck in a downhill driveway. Also a Subaru from a snowbank. Not bad for a car that had cost me $600. Again, I liked being able to steer my driving wheels.
Makes sense - the 2nd gen Golf has 63% of the weight on the front axle.

Good that you have snow tires - so many people that live in snowy climates don't. That would include me - I never had snow tires when I lived in Michigan and didn't know anyone that did. I bought chains when I moved to the Smoky Mtns and ski patrolled. We had to get up to the resort first thing even if the plow hadn't cleared the road. I got my first set of dedicated snow tires when I moved to Oregon and snow tires or chains were required to cross the passes. After taking chains on and off a dozen times in a weekend the first thing I did when I got home was order a set of snow tires on dedicated wheels. They go on at Thanksgiving and come off at Easter.
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Old 03-28-2021, 03:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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AFAIK even though there are some areas in my country where snowstorms are not totally unheard of, I have never seen snow tyres available for sale locally.
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Old 03-28-2021, 05:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Makes sense - the 2nd gen Golf has 63% of the weight on the front axle.
Ya, it's the weight difference that's what makes older cars so different from newer ones. Unless purposely built for sport use, most modern day manufacturers are going for a 50:50 weight distribution, or close to that.

You can tell by the tire pressure. On the Golf the rear tires took considerable less pressure than the front tires. The Bug was the opposite, requiring considerably less pressure in the front.

Unless loaded, in which the non-driven tires on both cars were supposed to have more air, sometimes more than the drive wheels, apparently indicating a fully loaded vehicle could end up with substancially more weight on the non-drive wheels than the drive wheels back in those days. I remember the Golf was supposed to be something like 30psi/25psi unloaded and 30psi/35psi when fully loaded.

One thing about RWD and bus route vehicles, when I would get stuck in the school bus is have all the kids sit in the rear seats which helped me get unstuck. But if have them move back forwards. Having too much weight in the rear would cause they bus to go sideways on glare ice. Of course thankfully the school buses had automatic tire chains.

This video might change my mind on EV's and RWD:
https://youtu.be/8VoqWYu2glw

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