Why you can't buy a high mpg car....

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by mcrews

ok, you dont get it.
There is no 'entreched mental block'! that is a simpleton way of thinking.
There is, however, a built in cost that other((non-big three) manufactures do not have,
Detroit cant even began to think about making a mini because there is no volume. THey have to have volume to cove the costs accoiated with each car produced.
Do you(in the plural) really not understand business models?

I'll skip over the US politics, and just ask why it is that you appear to think that BMW (parent of the Mini) does not have the same sort of built-in labor costs (and corporate taxes, etc) as US automakers? I don't claim expertise, but it seems to me that labor unions are even more entrenched (if not as adversarial) in Germany and the rest of Europe as in the US, and British labor unions (where the Mini is built) are perhaps worst of all. There are also the generally higher taxes needed to pay the costs of social programs &c.

As for volume, Detroit seems happy enough to build other fairly low-volume models, such as as the Corvette.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Monitors tend to suck like 50W continuously (depending on size)...

I wouldn't discount the drop in monitor power consumption. I've never actually put a meter on one, but my old 19" CRT used to put out a good deal of heat (and so long that I had to move my desk out from the wall by a foot or so). The 20" LDC I use now is barely warm, and it's 5 year old tech with fluorescent backlighting instead of LED.

Another important point here is that energy efficiency really applies to the whole system, not just one item. So when you count total energy use of my computer, you have to set off the energy I don't use commuting to work, heating/cooling/lighting an office cubicle, the energy embodied in printing & mailing bills & processing my payment checks, etc. Even that gaming PC: if you weren't sitting home playing computer games, you might be out driving around, riding dirt bikes, ATVs, jet skis, etc. Or consider the energy used by a PC flight simulator versus actually flying - even my Piper Cherokee burned 8-10 gallons per hour.

[jtbo]

In Finland, company must pay more than twice the amount of worker's paycheck, there is paycheck and there is much more than paycheck worth of taxes and other payments to cover pension etc.

Then companies still pay taxes on top of that.

Almost all taxes go to budget and whole pot is then divided to different things, everyone pays from everything, so each pay less from one thing but there are more things to cover.

From my understanding system is somewhat different from what is in US, but it's really long time since I studied US economy and tax system, anyway it was part of public schooling which also is paid by those taxes and payments.

I honestly can't say if this system is good, but I can say that anything made in here contains lot more than just union costs.

How many persons is that 4000 per car divided to?

Bailouts are bit problematic always, but what is alternative, stock market crash? There probably is no good solutions there either.


Corvette is best selling high performance sport car, right? Even it is low demand, I believe it is very profitable model.

[slowmover]

Blaming unions is hilarious, boys. And citing the Heritage Foundation only worsens the impression of low-brow "intelligence". Say what you want about unions they had their place and time. Before them, America was a lousy place to live given the amount of wealth being produced. And after their demise -- public or private -- the same is true again. May as well argue for an aristocracy: pays no taxes of note, is above the law and grabs the wealth of the land. In which no democracy exists. Unions, co-operatives and other bandings of ordinary people ought to be of more interest to you. If you want a Third World country, otherwise, just say so. It's past the point of "a trend".

Rein in banks/corporations (and get them out of politics altogether) and maybe we'd clearly see that finance capitalism and democracy are fundamentally opposed. The former has well-nigh destroyed the (idea of) of the latter. It's more useful (not to mention, true) that every institution of American society -- political, military, religious, educational, financial, etc -- is now deeply corrupt. Relief isn't available. The party is over.

Why you can't buy a high mpg car isn't solved, personally by indulging in such. Western society, hell, . . the planet is faced with problems which aren't going to be solved politically. There isn't a stalemate in Washington, there is profound and complete agreement as to how things will work until a bitter end. The rest is just theater, entertainment, to rabble rouse, to get-out-the-vote.

This country hasn't solved a problem politically since 1970.

Delusions arising from denial about the finite resources of a finite planet mean that your own transporation needs ought to be defined, re-thought and prepared with alternatives to what you have now. The future will not be like the past. The easily gotten gains of the past two hundred years of industrialisation are gone . . forever.

From hereon it will personally, societally -- and in a "planetary" sense -- be damned expensive to just keep what (you "think") you have. May be better to get ahead of that loss (and which may not actually be one).

.

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Blaming unions is hilarious, boys. ,


blah blah


more blah blah



which may not actually be one).

.

Wonderful rant.
Pretty typical.....denial, ranting, no facts just emotional rants.

Please calm down and provide fact to prove your statements. Also stay on topic.

[TEiN]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

You may have noticed that Detroit doesn't build LARGE inexpensive cars, and neither does it build small expensive ones (bar a few arguable outliers like the Corvette). Yet experience shows that people will buy a small, relatively expensive car if it is properly marketed, as for instance the Mini.

Wait... A Corvette is hardly a small car, and compared to a MINI, it's more than 30 inches longer. That's more than 20% bigger...

[user removed]

My 2011 recycled Fiesta seems to be doing fine at just under 46 MPG and average speed of about 39 MPH for more than 5K miles. That's an auto and using AC when the heat gets above low 90s. Also the last few tanks are on E10. I tried E0 but the difference wasn't worth the price increase.

regards
Mech

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Why you can't buy a high mpg car isn't solved, personally by indulging in such. Western society, hell, . . the planet is faced with problems which aren't going to be solved politically. There isn't a stalemate in Washington, there is profound and complete agreement as to how things will work until a bitter end. The rest is just theater, entertainment, to rabble rouse, to get-out-the-vote.

.

That is one thing we can agree on, there is only one party and one choice, the party of money, believing there are significant differences between the parties anymore is rather silly.

The only differences are the ones they allow to be visible and are on issues and involving groups they have little affinity for and thus no real stake, beyond face.

That said the issue of high MPG cars can be solved pollitically, just as soon as more money is thrown in from one large interest that exceeds the amount thrown in by another large interest you can and will see the Reagan era gray market laws CHANGE but they will change to support the large interest that forked in the money and not go away, just change to suite that interest. In the case of GM that may mean a less difficult method of getting specific domestic cars in from europe, although it would likely still be hard.

Unless of coarse enough people get bloody angry, our government still responds a little bit to fear, hence why we have the patriot act to protect the elect from backlash.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by TEiN

Wait... A Corvette is hardly a small car, and compared to a MINI, it's more than 30 inches longer. That's more than 20% bigger...

The Corvette is quite a bit lower, though: ~49 inches vs 55.4 for the Mini. It certainly is a fairly small car: perhaps not as small as the Mini, but much smaller than say a Chevy Suburban.

Suburban: 222.4 x 76.8 inches
Corvette: 174.6 x 49.1
Mini: 146.6 x 55.4

And unlike the Mini, the Corvette is a two-seater. But pick another car if you like, say the Porsche 911 series, or the Miata.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Blaming unions is hilarious, boys.

The problem is not the unions per se, but the fact that a lot of union leaders maintain & foster an adversarial relationship with employers. It's short-term thinking again: they're out to get everything they can for the next 3 years or however long the contract runs, regardless of what it does to the employer's profitability, and tell the members that it's justified because they're screwing the evil capitalist bosses. Now if they had sense, instead of trying to raise wages & benefits (the cost of which might drive the company to bankruptcy), they'd be insisting on profit sharing.