Yeah we all know its a scam

[P-hack]

So the control was to turn off the hho and leave everything else the same and see what happens?

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by P-hack

So the control was to turn off the hho and leave everything else the same and see what happens?

A simple test. But quite eye opening.

[P-hack]

Ok, but you see where I'm going with that I hope. You are saying HHO changes the pressure profile, which which alters the required tuning for peak bsfc (and/or broader bsfc). So turning off HHO detunes the engine for that operating mode by that reasoning.

[drrbc]

Originally Posted by ChazInMT

I don't even know where to begin here again.

First off, let me say I'm not attacking you, just the stupid notion that HHO can even begin to work. If you're that vested in the idea that HHO is the greatest thing since the wheel, and any attack on it, is one on you, then I guess I'm attacking you. I do not care for LugNutz, if you are him posting as 2 people, then .....well that would just be weird.

What "Claims" have you made?

You still have not defined anything, just a bunch of crap about how we're all too stupid consider open and closed loop thermodynamics. That's it. Explain the difference to us and how it allows the hydrogen produced by an HHO system to create 10 times the energy when used as a fuel supplement as it would just being burned on its own. I really want to hear how this works!!! I don't want to hear speculation, I want to see factual numbers, then we can discuss that instead of discussing how badly we treat people. WTF is so hard to grasp about that!!??!!! Lets talk FACTS, Science! You only seem bent on trying to prove we're all a bunch of Jerks instead of being bent on describing the wonders of HHO.

Let's see some numbers!!!! Give us formulas and percentages of energy in vs. energy out with HHO and without and how much HHO is being generated and combusted. Show us how HHO Works!!

Don't rip on me.....tell me where my logic is wrong? I laid out facts, and as far as I can see, the only rebuttal you have to any fact I stated deals with U235 which is an enriched form of Uranium that has a large macroscopic cross section of absorption of thermal neutrons making it an ideal submarine reactor fuel, and hydrogen being used to create a fusion reaction on the nuclear scale......Now just keep going down the path that you're going to create fusion in the combustion cylinders of the car and that there is proof that you're just a galactic moron. I will attack you at that point, personally, professionally, in any way I can cause there ain't no fusion goin on in no cars.

Please....No more "you called me this" and "you just fail to consider that" "Validate this" "Ego That" "Ur all just a bunch of meanies" "Generating Browns Gas creates a quantum singularity in the combustion cylinders allowing the fusion of hydrogen to use the power of the sun to fuel our cars"

Numbers, formulas, volumes, joules produced, joules used in the process. ANYTHING Please!!!

Also, you do realize this is a discussion forum in a fringe website with zero influence on society in general....most people here just like thinking about this stuff and are mildly entertained on accounta some unfulfilled need we have from our spouses, moms, dads, or pets or something. (at least that's my story) Your 3/5 conditions....and bold statements about terms of not posting for 60 days & such seem sort of out of place here. It's just a forum.

Chaz, this is hard on a small screen, but here's my best.

If you're not attacking me then why" blah, blah ,blah"? It wasn't necessary.

And your logic is good.. I just think we should change the order around. Be respectful to the guy so he doesn't run off and we can hear what he has to say

Science isn't prejudiced. The chance to be taught something that goes against long accepted as dogma is a learning opportunity, and not a "stupid notion". I'm not saying don't be skeptical tho

I'm not an hho proponent but I think the idea is interesting. I've not promoted it ever at all. And Rusty is the first person I'd heard of that was financed to get some numbers and NDA considered may still be able to share something. We weren't going to get any facts or numbers if he got ran off. Over the last few pages it looks like p-hack and rusty are exchanging info well. I just didn't want him badgered out of the thread by constantly having to explain the ICE is an open system.. The onus on knowing the distinction is on the individual.

And your retort to my bomb calorimeter/thermonuclear bomb example to contrast difference between closed v open systems was misleading, and you know that.

I don't want anyone seen as a jerk. But I also don't want someone who can teach me run off because they think we are jerks. I think we should all treat each other respectfull and hold each other accountable.

Finally if someone says to me you can't apply rule x because it only applies on a certain system, it's up to me to prove otherwise.

And I'm sure you know this but to reiterate closed is energy in and out. Open is energy and mass in and out.

Sorry if this isn't well written can't barely see the screen and fingers are too fat.

Anyway, drove all night and gotta sleep. Cheers.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by P-hack

So the control was to turn off the hho and leave everything else the same and see what happens?

This is the perfect mod for an A-B-A type test yet this concept seems to always escape the hho believers.

[Disco007]

1. How does Nitrous Oxide work when injected? Liberated free "O" molecule

2. H 2 "O" could the extra "O" introduced into the system have an impact?
Plus the free Hydrogen should create a hotter burn like the Hindenburg?

I know that it's hard to believe that it works, but it does. 1991 Chevy Caprice 305 with homemade bubbler was getting 40% better fuel economy till the computer did not like the extra "O" in the system. To get it to work properly you need to "TUNE" the system for the extra "O". I'm not that competent to tune the computer yet.

All of you that argue against this need to take a good look in the mirror and see who is holding you back form real ECO modding? Don't worry I'm Human 2

[ecoTex]

I would love to see that!

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Disco007

1. How does Nitrous Oxide work when injected? Liberated free "O" molecule

2. H 2 "O" could the extra "O" introduced into the system have an impact?
Plus the free Hydrogen should create a hotter burn like the Hindenburg?

I know that it's hard to believe that it works, but it does. 1991 Chevy Caprice 305 with homemade bubbler was getting 40% better fuel economy till the computer did not like the extra "O" in the system. To get it to work properly you need to "TUNE" the system for the extra "O". I'm not that competent to tune the computer yet.

All of you that argue against this need to take a good look in the mirror and see who is holding you back form real ECO modding? Don't worry I'm Human 2

I'm enjoying this thread!!! The one thing I can see is a HHO system could increase the burn rate speed thus help with combustion efficiency.

I have done a lot of N2O testing and have ran systems with out adding additional fuel. I have total control over ignition timing and fuel flow through my engine management system.

What I found from my testing is I could run a small amount of N2O at light load on my lean burn engine and retard timing from 38* BTDC to around 6* BTDC at a 25:1+ A/F ratio and improve BSFC. What it did was make my already fast burn head faster. Running a lean burn engine requires more ignition advance and that is not a good thing. The nitrous help with this.

The down side with nitrous oxide at $30.00 lb. for a 10 lb bottle, the cost doesn't out weigh the improve engine efficiency.

[P-hack]

Originally Posted by Disco007

2. H 2 "O" could the extra "O" introduced into the system have an impact?
Plus the free Hydrogen should create a hotter burn like the Hindenburg?

umm, on the surface that doesn't make sense. The extra H needs the extra O that it was just divorced from (in stoich proportions). There really isn't extra O at combustion time in an hho, it is small enough compared to nitrogen that the mass airflow flow isn't affected much.

Originally Posted by Disco007

I know that it's hard to believe that it works, but it does. 1991 Chevy Caprice 305 with homemade bubbler was getting 40% better fuel economy till the computer did not like the extra "O" in the system.

Again that explanation doesn't make much sense, to me anyway. And with a 305, I can imagine lots of ways to detune it. How much steam did your bubbler make? How did you validate the 40%? Did you find a grilled cheese sandwich that said 40% on it?

UNICORN CORRAL: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.", please provide extraordinary evidence for your claim.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

I'm enjoying this thread!!! The one thing I can see is a HHO system could increase the burn rate speed thus help with combustion efficiency.

I have done a lot of N2O testing and have ran systems with out adding additional fuel. I have total control over ignition timing and fuel flow through my engine management system.

What I found from my testing is I could run a small amount of N2O at light load on my lean burn engine and retard timing from 38* BTDC to around 6* BTDC at a 25:1+ A/F ratio and improve BSFC. What it did was make my already fast burn head faster. Running a lean burn engine requires more ignition advance and that is not a good thing. The nitrous help with this.

The down side with nitrous oxide at $30.00 lb. for a 10 lb bottle, the cost doesn't out weigh the improve engine efficiency.

How does a faster combustion event lead to an efficiency improvement? How have you measured improved BSFC? This sounds like an opportunity for detonation, which will not improve fuel economy.