Yeah we all know its a scam

[oldbeaver]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...you can do the same/similar "improvement" with 'shots' of NOX too, because I all you're doing is introducing a different fuel into the combustion process, one that either "boosts" power (NOX) or economy (CNG, propane, etc.).

...however, the REAL effect is simply that you're adding more fuel, albeit a different fuel, into the engine.

...add both fuels together, and your net "gain" is seldom above zero.

My experience was this:

Even when I add more fuel to the engine (the HHO), as my engine is not electronicaly controled, when I switched ON the HHO generator the engine diminishes rpm in the same way as with Air Conditioner. The HHO generator was my second versión build, improved, with 11 cells, very efficient, but even though, for me it was clear that the generator was sucking more energy from the engine than the energy it was providing burning the HOH gas.

If the gas had been giving additional energy, the engine would have increased its rpm, as if I was accelerating a Little more, i.e. injecting more fuel.

Besides, the HHO generator had to be fed with wáter.

I worked a lot in the system, but reality showed me it was a fiasco.
Not any theoretical consideration or prejudice. Just doing.

Oldbeaver

Note: What if we had to generate our gasoline or diesel onboard? My impression is it probably would had a negative energy balance too.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by oldbeaver

My experience was this:

Even when I add more fuel to the engine (the HHO), as my engine is not electronicaly controled, when I switched ON the HHO generator the engine diminishes rpm in the same way as with Air Conditioner. The HHO generator was my second versión build, improved, with 11 cells, very efficient, but even though, for me it was clear that the generator was sucking more energy from the engine than the energy it was providing burning the HOH gas.

If the gas had been giving additional energy, the engine would have increased its rpm, as if I was accelerating a Little more, i.e. injecting more fuel.

Besides, the HHO generator had to be fed with wáter.

I worked a lot in the system, but reality showed me it was a fiasco.
Not any theoretical consideration or prejudice. Just doing.

Oldbeaver

Note: What if we had to generate our gasoline or diesel onboard? My impression is it probably would had a negative energy balance too.

Things such as the engine tested as well as the current draw of the HHO generator as well as it's gas output.

Your test procedure would also be helpful.

[oldbeaver]

Ok, here are some more details:

1) The engine tested was a Nissan RD28, 3000cc, 6 cil in line, naturally aspirated, 18 valves. Made in Japan in 1996. This was about 6 years ago. The engine is still working in very good condition, was perfect then. You can see it here: https://sites.google.com/site/rd28engineswap/

2) From what I recall, the current draw from the car was about 20 A, but variated up as the wáter warmed up, reaching 25 A aproximately.

3) Gas production was so high that pushed wáter down, diminishing the production surface covered with wáter. To solve this and use all surface in production, I added a small 12V electric pump which blew the gas to the bubler. This solved the problem.

I am attaching a couple of pictures of my HHO generator.

It is made of very heavy and non corrosive Steel, which is very hard to make holes on it. I broke many perforing elements to make the holes. I couldn't cut Steel, so make them cut it with special machinery.

Even so, as I said in previous email, car didn´t benefit from the gas, which I injected at the air income of the engine, after the air filter.

Oldbeaver

[oil pan 4]

If you can build that HHO generator then you should really try building something proven to work like an air dam or any one of the other 70 or so things proven to work.

For some reason people tend to gravitate toward mods that don't work like gas tank pills, hho or some over elaborate combustion process modification that is so complicated no one can explain how it works.

[gone-ot]

Uh, there's a BIG difference between an "...exercise in frugality..." and an "...exercise in futility...". And, the wise observer easily discerns their difference for themselves.

[oldbeaver]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

If you can build that HHO generator then you should really try building something proven to work like an air dam or any one of the other 70 or so things proven to work.

For some reason people tend to gravitate toward mods that don't work like gas tank pills, hho or some over elaborate combustion process modification that is so complicated no one can explain how it works.

Oil Pan,

Yeah, sure. I like to experiment. I also built an air front cover, but for my Skoda Octavia. Performance improve difficult to measure, anyway. Is that what you mean as "Air Dam"?

What are your favorites among the 70 that do work? I like the ones that don´t change the original look, and produce the most bang for the buck.
Do you mean the 70 mods listed in this site?

Oldbeaver

[oil pan 4]

A front air cover sound like a grill block.
The air dam keeps air from getting hung up on the under side of the vehicle.
An air dam and grill blocks can change the vehicle appearance as much or as little as you want, only thing that limits the visual impact are your imagination, time and budget.

See this:
Car MPG Efficiency Modifications Main - EcoModder
Some mods are vehicle profile specific so they only apply to pickup, car or SUV bodies.
Others are engine specific there are big differences between how the same mod can effect diesel versus gas engines.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

If you can build that HHO generator then you should really try building something proven to work like an air dam or any one of the other 70 or so things proven to work.

For some reason people tend to gravitate toward mods that don't work like gas tank pills, hho or some over elaborate combustion process modification that is so complicated no one can explain how it works.

. . . the internet hacks can't get it to work, doesn't mean it doesn't. Add to that the grossly inflated claims the scammers attribute to the device and all of a sudden, it's stuck in the unicorn corral.

But, the science for HHO is there, though not in the simpleton assessments of the typical internet discussion.

And the gains to the average person are not in line with the costs involved. It's probably better to zip tie pie tins on your wheels.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by oldbeaver

Even so, as I said in previous email, car didn´t benefit from the gas, which I injected at the air income of the engine, after the air filter.

Oldbeaver

Your quality of build is excellent, but like most who attempt HHO, you have not looked at integrating what the gas does to the combustion profile with the engine application you have.

Without a feedback loop and variable gas output from your generator, the application becomes largely hit and miss.

[oil pan 4]

I am fairly certain no one has gotten it to work.
Why would I waste time building an HHO machine, that is only proven to deliver no results and inconsistent and inconclusive results at best, then always have to tinker with it, adding water or doing what ever you do to make them go.
Then if you do get it to work the oil company has you killed.
Why would I bother with all of that mess when I can build an air dam once, in a day, for about $20, using low value scraps for most of it, never have to mess with it unless the lawn edging gets torn off and gain almost a full MPG?

Last week I was in Maine, the high temperature most days was well below freezing.
In that situation the air dam is not effected.
How does the water filled HHO machine do?