Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Closed Thread  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-07-2018, 11:56 PM   #1591 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Science is based on independently reproducible results.

Scientific laws display 100% accuracy, that's why it's a law, it always works, 100% of the time and there is no counter argument that isn't proved wrong 100% of the time.
"Scientific Law" is a quite misused term.

Newton's "Law of Universal Gravitation", for example, is not a Universal Law because it doesn't describe gravity 100% accurately. That's why we have General Relativity.

But it's good enough for field work. And it is just as demonstrable in a laboratory as the greenhouse effect caused by CO2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
But you can change your mind.

Choose pumped hydro, flywheels, compressed air under mountains, weight lifting rack railroads, molten salts..... help me here, there must be a few more.
Everything else requires specific construction. The allure of batteries is universal interoperability.

-

I like pumped hydro myself. Kill two birds with one stone.

 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to niky For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018), freebeard (05-08-2018)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-08-2018, 02:03 AM   #1592 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,497
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,860 Times in 7,314 Posts
Quote:
... the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. ...
Pirates of the Caribbean
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar --You can't say that is a coincidence.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
niky (05-08-2018)
Old 05-08-2018, 02:29 AM   #1593 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 12,230

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 34.2 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 35.39 mpg (US)

Don't hit me bro - '05 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 30.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,254
Thanked 2,229 Times in 1,719 Posts
If anyone so much as mentions the word "parley," I'll have their guts for garters!
 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Xist For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018), freebeard (05-08-2018)
Old 05-08-2018, 09:45 AM   #1594 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,265

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,568 Times in 2,832 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Global battery shortage has been hanging up Tesla production and now hits Hyundai.
.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...electric-sales
.
How many grid scale storage batteries can we really make if we can't even keep up with a few hundred thousand cars/year.
This is exactly what I have been say all along.
Back in 2008 to 2010 nickel prices hit all time highs of $30/lb if I remember correctly.
Then auto manufacturers shifted to using lithium.
The US sells something like a few million new cars per year only a few thousand are battery powered or are plug in hybrids with a pack bigger than 5kwh (actually useable for driving more than just a few miles) and battery market can't even keep up with demand.

I did read on my precious metals sites a few weeks back, think it was on kitco dot com had an article about a large lithium strip mine about to be opening up out in Nevada. But mining investment and startup aren't really my thing. I'll stick with buying the finished products.

Also when I go off grid I am using several tons of fork lift lead acid traction battery. Because lead is plentiful, cheap, 100% recyclable and almost perfect for stationary applications such as this, unlike lithium batteries.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018)
Old 05-08-2018, 11:35 AM   #1595 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,497
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,860 Times in 7,314 Posts
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...lt-Miners.html

Nickel-cobalt-aluminium (NCA) technology vs Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt (NMC). And going from induction to permenant magnet motors in the Model 3 will require more rare earth metals. Better get that asteroid mining operation up and running.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar --You can't say that is a coincidence.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018)
Old 05-08-2018, 11:41 AM   #1596 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,735

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - CBR600 - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - Dodge/Cummins - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)

Model Y - '24 Tesla Y LR AWD

Pacifica Hybrid - '21 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid
90 day: 85.85 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,315
Thanked 4,467 Times in 3,432 Posts
I expect supply of these minerals to be like the supply of oil. Price dictates the "effort" given towards mining the resource. If the price goes high enough, they will figure out ways to extract minerals in increasingly difficult areas.

There's no such thing as running out, only pricing that makes consumption cost prohibitive.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
 
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018)
Old 05-08-2018, 12:07 PM   #1597 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 105.14 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 38.51 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 104.48 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 80.94 mpg (US)

Ninja650 - '19 Kawasaki Ninja 650
90 day: 72.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
There's no such thing as running out, only pricing that makes consumption cost prohibitive.
Depends on how far down the road we can see and how we define "run out". If 10% of peak availability means we didn't "run out", then things will last a few more hundred years.
.
Oil will slip onto a price/ demand platue of $200 adjusted / barrel in 30 years. And will arguably "run out" inside of 100 years. Which to me seems like very soon. Other essential minerals such as Phosphorous, Copper and Silver are on a similar trajectory
 
The Following User Says Thank You to sendler For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018)
Old 05-08-2018, 01:32 PM   #1598 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
If the earth were only 800,000 years old then it might be a problem.




That's a material property, we know CO2 warms the atmosphere, with out any CO2 it the mean temperature at the equator might not be much above freezing
Yes, and we humans are adding carbon dioxide (carbon 12) to the atmosphere - and the climate is getting warmer. Most of the carbon dioxide is being absorbed by the ocean, which makes it more acidic (carbonic acid) - AND the ocean is absorbing most of the heat, too.

Eventually, as the ocean gets warmer - it will release the carbon dioxide - and this will accelerate the warming.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
 
The Following User Says Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018)
Old 05-08-2018, 01:33 PM   #1599 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,497
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,860 Times in 7,314 Posts
Quote:
...ways to extract minerals in increasingly difficult areas.
That would be the oceans and dead seas of the world. It's all there.

Hence the need for nano-pored graphene membranes. With graduated pore sizes. It reminds me of the graduated stainless steel separation screens in the seed mill I worked at in high school.

edit:
I'll try to shoehorn this into the topic at hand. I assume agreement that the Sun drives the Solar System, even if our local ecosystem is steered by a populace drunk on the [relatively] free energy of 'fossil residue'.

How much do we really know about how that energy transfer works. I appreciate the perspective of the Electric Universe proponents. Now they raise the question — Is light something that moves from place to place? Or not?

__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar --You can't say that is a coincidence.

Last edited by freebeard; 05-08-2018 at 01:45 PM..
 
Old 05-08-2018, 01:41 PM   #1600 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Global battery shortage has been hanging up Tesla production and now hits Hyundai.
.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...electric-sales
.
How many grid scale storage batteries can we really make if we can't even keep up with a few hundred thousand cars/year.
Grid storage batteries can be totally different chemistries that car batteries. They SHOULD be totally different, so they are cheaper and easier to make - they do not need to be small or high energy density.

Molten metal batteries, or salt water batteries, or many other possibilities.

Car batteries will also change - lithium glass or lithium plastic solid state batteries are promising; with MUCH higher energy density and much better longevity, and much better safety, too.

Search for the Super Battery | NOVA | PBS

__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
 
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-14-2018), Fat Charlie (05-08-2018), freebeard (05-08-2018), niky (05-08-2018)
Closed Thread  Post New Thread


Tags
lies, opinion, reality, scam





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com