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Old 05-07-2018, 10:56 PM   #1591 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Science is based on independently reproducible results.

Scientific laws display 100% accuracy, that's why it's a law, it always works, 100% of the time and there is no counter argument that isn't proved wrong 100% of the time.
"Scientific Law" is a quite misused term.

Newton's "Law of Universal Gravitation", for example, is not a Universal Law because it doesn't describe gravity 100% accurately. That's why we have General Relativity.

But it's good enough for field work. And it is just as demonstrable in a laboratory as the greenhouse effect caused by CO2.

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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
But you can change your mind.

Choose pumped hydro, flywheels, compressed air under mountains, weight lifting rack railroads, molten salts..... help me here, there must be a few more.
Everything else requires specific construction. The allure of batteries is universal interoperability.

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I like pumped hydro myself. Kill two birds with one stone.

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Old 05-08-2018, 01:03 AM   #1592 (permalink)
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... the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. ...
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:29 AM   #1593 (permalink)
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:45 AM   #1594 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Global battery shortage has been hanging up Tesla production and now hits Hyundai.
.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...electric-sales
.
How many grid scale storage batteries can we really make if we can't even keep up with a few hundred thousand cars/year.
This is exactly what I have been say all along.
Back in 2008 to 2010 nickel prices hit all time highs of $30/lb if I remember correctly.
Then auto manufacturers shifted to using lithium.
The US sells something like a few million new cars per year only a few thousand are battery powered or are plug in hybrids with a pack bigger than 5kwh (actually useable for driving more than just a few miles) and battery market can't even keep up with demand.

I did read on my precious metals sites a few weeks back, think it was on kitco dot com had an article about a large lithium strip mine about to be opening up out in Nevada. But mining investment and startup aren't really my thing. I'll stick with buying the finished products.

Also when I go off grid I am using several tons of fork lift lead acid traction battery. Because lead is plentiful, cheap, 100% recyclable and almost perfect for stationary applications such as this, unlike lithium batteries.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:35 AM   #1595 (permalink)
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https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...lt-Miners.html

Nickel-cobalt-aluminium (NCA) technology vs Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt (NMC). And going from induction to permenant magnet motors in the Model 3 will require more rare earth metals. Better get that asteroid mining operation up and running.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:41 AM   #1596 (permalink)
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I expect supply of these minerals to be like the supply of oil. Price dictates the "effort" given towards mining the resource. If the price goes high enough, they will figure out ways to extract minerals in increasingly difficult areas.

There's no such thing as running out, only pricing that makes consumption cost prohibitive.
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:07 AM   #1597 (permalink)
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There's no such thing as running out, only pricing that makes consumption cost prohibitive.
Depends on how far down the road we can see and how we define "run out". If 10% of peak availability means we didn't "run out", then things will last a few more hundred years.
.
Oil will slip onto a price/ demand platue of $200 adjusted / barrel in 30 years. And will arguably "run out" inside of 100 years. Which to me seems like very soon. Other essential minerals such as Phosphorous, Copper and Silver are on a similar trajectory
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:32 PM   #1598 (permalink)
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If the earth were only 800,000 years old then it might be a problem.




That's a material property, we know CO2 warms the atmosphere, with out any CO2 it the mean temperature at the equator might not be much above freezing
Yes, and we humans are adding carbon dioxide (carbon 12) to the atmosphere - and the climate is getting warmer. Most of the carbon dioxide is being absorbed by the ocean, which makes it more acidic (carbonic acid) - AND the ocean is absorbing most of the heat, too.

Eventually, as the ocean gets warmer - it will release the carbon dioxide - and this will accelerate the warming.
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:33 PM   #1599 (permalink)
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Quote:
...ways to extract minerals in increasingly difficult areas.
That would be the oceans and dead seas of the world. It's all there.

Hence the need for nano-pored graphene membranes. With graduated pore sizes. It reminds me of the graduated stainless steel separation screens in the seed mill I worked at in high school.

edit:
I'll try to shoehorn this into the topic at hand. I assume agreement that the Sun drives the Solar System, even if our local ecosystem is steered by a populace drunk on the [relatively] free energy of 'fossil residue'.

How much do we really know about how that energy transfer works. I appreciate the perspective of the Electric Universe proponents. Now they raise the question — Is light something that moves from place to place? Or not?

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Old 05-08-2018, 12:41 PM   #1600 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Global battery shortage has been hanging up Tesla production and now hits Hyundai.
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https://www.greencarreports.com/news...electric-sales
.
How many grid scale storage batteries can we really make if we can't even keep up with a few hundred thousand cars/year.
Grid storage batteries can be totally different chemistries that car batteries. They SHOULD be totally different, so they are cheaper and easier to make - they do not need to be small or high energy density.

Molten metal batteries, or salt water batteries, or many other possibilities.

Car batteries will also change - lithium glass or lithium plastic solid state batteries are promising; with MUCH higher energy density and much better longevity, and much better safety, too.

Search for the Super Battery | NOVA | PBS

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