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Old 05-08-2018, 01:07 PM   #1601 (permalink)
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We might be able to scrape up enough for 10 billion people to have 500 Wh each for an e-bike or scooter board and run some lighting when they are not riding them.
.
We are currently consuming 17 TW continuous average. 400TWh to store 1 day's worth. Still 200 even if full electric conversion happens to be twice as efficient. 20 world GigaFactories for 60 years. The world will be one big pit mine before we are done.

 
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:24 PM   #1602 (permalink)
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Sendler- I'm not disagreeing with the problem, only taking a less concerned outlook on things since humanity has a way of addressing problems as they come. Technology will continue to advance on all fronts, which should improve efficiency of energy consuming devices, provide alternative storage solutions, improve mining capabilities, and who knows what else the future holds.

I tend to share your pessimistic outlook on batteries being a viable grid storage solution and alternative energy replacing primary generation.

I wonder what our grid consumption looks like with all those Bitcoin farms powered off?
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:35 PM   #1603 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
We might be able to scrape up enough for 10 billion people to have 500 Wh each for an e-bike or scooter board and run some lighting when they are not riding them.
.
We are currently consuming 17 TW continuous average. 400TWh to store 1 day's worth. Still 200 even if full electric conversion happens to be twice as efficient. 20 world GigaFactories for 60 years. The world will be one big pit mine before we are done.
Wait till the green flag fliers see the mining and processing techniques for rare earth elements and what's left over from processing. They will be begging for hydraulic fracturing and nuclear power.
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:09 PM   #1604 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
We might be able to scrape up enough for 10 billion people to have 500 Wh each for an e-bike or scooter board and run some lighting when they are not riding them.
.
We are currently consuming 17 TW continuous average. 400TWh to store 1 day's worth. Still 200 even if full electric conversion happens to be twice as efficient. 20 world GigaFactories for 60 years. The world will be one big pit mine before we are done.
How is Orkney managing to produce over 100% of the electricity they use?
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:21 PM   #1605 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
I wonder what our grid consumption looks like with all those Bitcoin farms powered off?
I'm picturing prolate spheroid tethered dirigible bodies on hyperbolic paraboloid tethers that scale up the Wyndecliff tower that Tesla erected. With his grounding system (as big as the tower, currently under a toxic spill) upgraded to superconducting cables.

Maybe tin-wood batteries will gain favor:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl400998t

Quote:
Wait till the green flag fliers see the mining and processing techniques...
They don't bother me as much as the red-and-black flag flyers.
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:35 PM   #1606 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
How is Orkney managing to produce over 100% of the electricity they use?
Population 20,000 and no industry. And electricity is only 20-30% of total energy consumption worldwide. Rebuildables can offer a good quality of life for 2 billion people. Costa Rica is the other darling example but they only have 5 million people in the whole country and get most of their electricity from one (of the world's largest) dam.
.
Germany is a good example with 115% electrical capacity from rebuildables but all winter long was running between 4-500gmCO2/ kWh because of the very poor capacity factor in winter. Not to mention the other 70% of their energy that is not electricity.
.
It was very sunny in Germany today. They briefly made it over 50% of electricity for a couple hours.
.
https://www.electricitymap.org/?page...countryCode=DE
.
NY state still kicked their ass on carbon emissions by 30% with no wind or solar.
.
https://www.electricitymap.org/?page...ntryCode=US-NY
.
 
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:13 AM   #1607 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Population 20,000 and no industry. And electricity is only 20-30% of total energy consumption worldwide. Rebuildables can offer a good quality of life for 2 billion people. Costa Rica is the other darling example but they only have 5 million people in the whole country and get most of their electricity from one (of the world's largest) dam.
.
Germany is a good example with 115% electrical capacity from rebuildables but all winter long was running between 4-500gmCO2/ kWh because of the very poor capacity factor in winter. Not to mention the other 70% of their energy that is not electricity.
.
It was very sunny in Germany today. They briefly made it over 50% of electricity for a couple hours.
.
https://www.electricitymap.org/?page...countryCode=DE
.
NY state still kicked their ass on carbon emissions by 30% with no wind or solar.
.
https://www.electricitymap.org/?page...ntryCode=US-NY
.
Germany has as much sun as ALASKA.
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:58 AM   #1608 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Sendler- I'm not disagreeing with the problem, only taking a less concerned outlook on things since humanity has a way of addressing problems as they come...
I think it's more like, humanity has a way of kicking the can down the road.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:09 PM   #1609 (permalink)
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cheap oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
30 years ago solar power cost some where around $10 per watt and oil was cheap. So even if the US would have started 30 years ago we would have maybe several more gigawatts of solar power installed, for 10 times the cost it is today, those panels would probably be well on their way out after 30 years. So starting 30 years earlier would have given no measurable gain, aside from higher national debt.
So no regrets on not "starting 30 years earlier" as far as I can see.

Like global warming there is no debate about how horrible china's environmental stewardship is.

So no comment on the horrible $ to kwh conversion solar tends to run?

I don't have any thing against solar, I'm working towards installing several kw of solar on my house. I just don't understand the green lust everyone has.
I agree with what you say,but there's a context,only in which your values would have merit,with caveats and conditions.
The well-to-wheels cost of fuel was on the order of $15 /gallon.Since the 'externalities' weren't reflected at the pump there was an illusion of cheap oil.From the song lyric "from the shores of Tripoli" there's a message.
Cheap oil was a $2.90/Barrel wellhead price for West Texas intermediate crude,on October 22,1973.Saudi Arabia's wellhead price was $0.25/barrel.Gasoline in my hometown was selling at $0.25/gallon.On the next day it changed forever.
I'm an Oklahoma oil producer,and I'm receiving $70/Barrel today,from wells which were producing for the family in 1973 and before.I don't lift a finger for it.
Solar would have (and is) a bargain.That's coming from a 'oil man.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to green lust:
Man is combusting hydrocarbons in volumes equal to a 100-year-old Oak forest,forest fire,equal in surface area to the entire surface of Earth,every 7-months.We burned 30,000 years worth of forest since 1850.
The folks who pay attention to such things find this a bit disconcerting and have made solid causal links to global warming,something they see no good in.
Conservation measures between 1973 and 1985 increased GNP 32% for 21 participating IEA nations.
If you want to wreck the US economy keep filling half your tank with foreign oil.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:11 PM   #1610 (permalink)
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driving?

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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Steering, possibly; but driving?



Thanks for thoroughly misinterpreting my comment about the 'nameplate capacity' of a BUgatti.

Of course what you ask for actually exists, Project Sunroof:

https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0

Knock yourself out. [does that translate?]
I'm just deferring to the scientific community.

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