The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by All Darc

Strange, you ignored my responses. Did I anoyed you?

Don't read too much into it. People's thoughts wander for reasons beyond what we can know. I've made posts that make me laugh out loud and nobody notices.

In fact at permalink #2871 I said

Thanks for your perspective. All I got was 'obvious point is obvious'.

aerohead and Xist thanked me but you didn't. I tried not to care.

Further to #2882, here's an article from Cory Doctorow at BoingBoing: https://boingboing.net/2018/09/13/be...an-bounty.html

After being hammered by hurricane Maria, the residents of the rural Puerto Rican mountain town of Mariana got tired of waiting for the bumbling, privatized, cash-starved power authority to reconnect them to the grid, so the anarchist organizer Christine Nieves founded Proyecto de Apoyo Mutuo, one of a dozen-odd cooperatives across the island to create their own solar grid; by the time the The Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority finally put in appearance, Mariana had had power for two whole months.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by All Darc

They talk about take radiant residual heat from thermal power plants, by using these micro antenna technology..

https://www.electronicproducts.com/P...sted_heat.aspx

"Still a longs ways off"

[All Darc]

Be somewhat way off, in ecologic terms, in my perpective, it's a reason to incentive and not a reason to forgot. It' like a country with poor education system. No schools for everybody, no teachers enough, not very good teacher. Is it a reason to forgot education of a whole people? No, it's a reason to make efforts.

The problem is that the nations compete too much between each other, and nobody want to spent money in eco technology if the other nations will not spent money by just try to take advantage of cheap ways to try take the market.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Here's a video that Youtube wanted me to see: Greenpeace Founder Debunks Climate Change! (Dr. Patrick Moore Uncut) | Louder With Crowder

That guy didn't found Greenpeace. Louder With Crowder is not a credible source. He has been debunked.

[Xist]

You disagree with him, therefore he is wrong?

[sendler]

Originally Posted by aerohead

It will be something beyond my security level and pay grade.

But we are the cognizant

Originally Posted by aerohead

The very fact that you can list such things is evidence that these are considerations,leading to the highest levels of the intelligence community and think tanks.

I dissagree. There are no major governments that are not forcasting business as usual growth for the next 30 years. Modern (last 100 years) economic theory was developed during this one time carbon pulse and will not remain valid after energy availabiliy crests in a couple decades.

Originally Posted by aerohead

Stability will be the byword.We're not going to have anarchy in this country.

True. The rich and powerful will fight to maintain their control and market share. I fear that future "occupy Wall Street" demonstrations will be met with live fire from the new private armys of the elite. Homeland Security, IRS, and, BATF recently purchased 100's of Millions of rounds of ammunition such that the entire manufacturing capacity in the country was swamped and normal civilian sporting goods store's shelves in the USA went empty.

Originally Posted by aerohead

Since debt is a legal fiction,erasing debt is a matter of rearranging the ink on a piece of paper.

Not true at all. Debt creates virtual "helcopter money". Which has been spent. The interest on which can only be paid back with growth. One by one countries will default starting a dominoe effect of hyper inflation and worthless currency in a globalized system where no area is equiped to stand on their own. Too many countries to name are already on the brink or having serious problems which require them to fall back on the International Monetary Fund.

Originally Posted by aerohead

We like capitalism here,I suspect that this is what we'll have,although it may be a hybrid form, with some command and control.My college sociology professor talked about this.

I agree. As you mentioned in an earlier post, it will take a WWII focused effort with grass roots support and government mandates with rationing coupons, ect, to accomplish the energy and infrastrucure transition that is needed. The invisible hand of the free market is way too short sighted and focused on the largest short term return on frivolous investments that are demanded by completey selfish consumers that have zero vision of deep time and are hooked on modern super normal stimuli giving instantaneous brain reward chemicals.
This, and the completly broken equitable distribution of wealth world wide requires that we must find a whole new way. And it only works if the entire world acts in unity. Otherwise there is just a nationalist isolationary race to exclusionary fortress countries, and then cities, of priviledge with squalor and barbarism attacking from the outside.

Originally Posted by aerohead

New generations born into this world will take whatever they see as 'normal.'They'll have nothing to compare to.

They will look back at us with scorn since have taken our one time primordial energy gift and blown it on instant gratification.

Originally Posted by aerohead

At 30-years out,that's a lot of time,with slow,steady,incremental change along the timeline.That's all they've ever allowed before.

It takes that long and more to completely change everything. We are taking baby steps. We need much larger than baby steps.

Originally Posted by aerohead

I likely won't be around.

Neither will I but that doesn't absolve us from taking wise action now. For "their" sake. We must finally earn our name and become truly sapient.

[oil pan 4]

Baby step some AP1000 reactors on line.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Baby step some AP1000 reactors on line.

Our second primordial energy gift. Still takes 9 years to complete an AP1000. Even in China. And reactors that rely on pumped water are a poor risk for a society that could very well collapse into a simpler state that might not be able to take care of such mega-machines. Abandoned cooling ponds will be a nightmare of toxic fires that will not go out.
.
Fully passive safety is easily accomplished with molten salt reactors and is a high tech solution I would be in great favor of. But again, this type of high tech development is not happening in the free market and would require an Apollo mission scale commitment from world governments to bring to fruition. This would be the only energy source dense enough to realistically heat and power Northern Mega-cities and steel and cement production after natural gas tips over the top of supply to a 4X cost in 60 years.
.
And this still leaves us short on liquid fuel for farming, mining our last scraps, transportation and road maintenance,ect.

[oil pan 4]

I would like to see thorium reactors too.
Right now thorium is a considered a radioactive waste by product left over from rare earth elements extraction.
But the anti nuclear dummies won't let technology advance, so we are stuck using cold war era nuclear energy.

You would think the anti nuclear dummies would demand nuclear waste be recycled in a timely manor.
But solely because of them it piles up in temporary storage at a 100 or so sites around the country.
They really don't have a clue.
I'm pretty sure all they have ever done is cause problems for the nuclear industry and make things worse.

Best thing they can do besides demand waste recycling is shut up and let the grown-ups take care of it.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by Xist

You disagree with him, therefore he is wrong?

It has got nothing to do with me. Crowder is a blogger, who has been shown to get the science wrong, on many things - and therefore he is not a credible source.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeOZSMrwnYw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrNmq4ouWww

And Patrick Moore is also wrong on science:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XIpTqbLR5Y