The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[redpoint5]

I wish I had vehicles that could heat up while connected to wall power before I get in.

I thought that would be a key feature to get my grandfather to go EV, that and having a "full tank" every morning, eliminating his need to ever visit the petrol station.

He ended up buying a Chevy Colorado 4x4, then died a few months later.

[oil pan 4]

I have been preheating and defrosting gasoline vehicles parked out side with electric heaters since 1998 or 1999.

[Lemmy]

Preheating the engine in the name of efficiency, great. Preheanting the cabin in the name of comfort, not so great. Simply covering the vehicle solves that one for no recurring use of resources. The Eco bit of Ecommodding is strangely overlooked.

It seems people are all for saving the planet until they have to give up some comfort or convenience, then the excuses get trotted out for using some electricity to do the hard work, as I'm sure they will any second now...

[redpoint5]

You don't seem to get the concept of wanting to increase comfort efficiently.

I'm as willing as anyone to endure harsh conditions, but there simply is no need when for less than 8 cents, you can be comfortable, and the windows can be defrosted/defogged.

My interest in efficiency is an end in itself, and I'm under no pretense that I've somehow saved the planet because I drive a Prius, work from home, or recycle. The wellbeing of humanity is my main concern. The environment, our environment, is an enormously big part of human well-being, so that is my interest in managing it appropriately. Whether polar bears will share the environment with us in the future, I don't particularly care.

[oil pan 4]

I was preheating the cabin to defrost it so I didn't crash into something or someone. With a gasoline vehicle using an electric heater avoids running the engine for up to 20 minutes to melt ice off the wind shield. 20 minutes of running the engine and not going anywhere is not very efficient.
When I warm it up with the electric heater I can disconnect the heater, start the car drive the car slowly and it will warm up while going down the road achieving something greater than 0mpg.

In an electric vehicle I don't normally use the heat unless I absoluty have to.

I tried "covering the windshield", yeah I started going down the road it frosts up and I can't see anything until the car can get warm enough to defrost it's self.
After the 3rd time this happened I gave up on it.
Once the windshield defrosts in the drive way you know it's probably not going to freeze back up on the road.

Plus at least for the winter I'm putting my leaf in my semi heated garage.

As long as i didnt have to go outof my way very far I wouldn't hesitate to lawfully hunt polar bears, eat their meat, wear their fur and give their bones to my dogs for them to chew on.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I'm curious. Why?

Fully transparent citizen-scientists, like the 19th and first half of the 20th centuries.

I don't care for the product.I can get unfiltered data.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

This is brilliant. A thread discussing extreme water conservation, while elsewhere our compadres are discussing expending electricity to preheat EV interiors.

Do they go on to discuss the implications of ICE vehicle,remote-start keyless ignition,cabin preheating with 66% thermal losses and carbon dioxide emissions at zero-mpg?

[RedDevil]

I wouldn't preheat for comfort but for safety and, if needed, range. If I had an EV there'd be no doubt. I'd get PV panels on the house, I'd put one more than I'd need for the hell of it.

I have stopped my car after a few hundred meters because it fogged up again once too often. AC is great for that, but once on I can't turn it off again or it fogs up with a vengeance.

[oil pan 4]

The electrician is coming Friday to give me a quote on putting in the second meter for the solar panels.

If I own land, clean up said land, haul tons of junk to the scrap yard to be recycled, plant trees on that land, drive an electric vehicle, use renewable solid fuel heating and put in solar panels but I'm one of those evil denyers who wants to trash the environment, then what does that make the landless, non tree planting, gas car driving believers?
Asking for a friend.
I'm leaning towards useful idiot hypocrites.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

You don't seem to get the concept of wanting to increase comfort efficiently.

I get it alright, there is no need to be patronising.

I would suggest that it's you who doesn't get it. If you're truly interested in efficiency you wouldn't be wasting resources on 'comfort'. Expending resources, no matter how minor, on something that is not essential is not efficient - it's frivolous. Each time we do so we bring closer the day when the resources will no longer exist to be used on genuinely useful stuff.

I spend zero on preheating a car cabin in the name of comfort by simply putting it away when its not in use, and then dressing appropriately for the Winter weather when venturing forth. Minus high teens Celsius is quite common in the Winter here, so the challenges faced by myself are comparable, and I do just dandy without wasting a joule of energy. I've addressed the problem, not the symptom.

If you're genuinely interested in efficiency then I challenge you to better that, or to at least make an effort to match it. Using precious energy to pre heat a cars cabin, no matter how cunningly the task is approached, is not efficient - its wasteful, and there is simply no other way to describe it with out being disingenuous.

Better still, look at the journey being considered before even preheating a car. Can it be walked or achieved by other means? Is it necessary to use a xxxx-kg car with 3 or 4 empty seats in the first place? When you start thinking along those lines, then you'll genuinely start to be using resources efficiently.

Originally Posted by aerohead

Do they go on to discuss the implications of ICE vehicle,remote-start keyless ignition,cabin preheating with 66% thermal losses and carbon dioxide emissions at zero-mpg?

Ah, I see you've met them