The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[All Darc]

It nearly cools itself, since the mini multi junction are part of the panel and not a tiny spot alone in other farend part like the zenith solar system. So the mini multijunction uses the 200 times larger panel area like a cooler.
And it's 200 suns concentration and not 1000 suns like Zenith Solar's system.

https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blo...enithsolar.jpg

Zenith system uses water to cool, and so produces hot water for shower. They uses the heated water as part of the efficience calculation, leading to the "fake" claim of 72% efficience. The solar cell efficience it's a bit more than 40%, quite good, since it uses 1000 suns concentration and not just 200 suns.
But 1000 suns would require cooling help.
Welll, solar energy and hot shower source (help save electricity) it could be.

I asked your exact question to a company who created a similar concentrator to insolight panel, Morgan Solar, but that required tracking.



If Insolight could find way to create optical precise to 1000 suns concentration, and for viable prices for such opticals, they could have a chance. Maybe China production costs would be the key.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Does that concentration unit cool the PV cell(s)? Heat is the enemy of efficiency. There is an Israeli company makes this sort of collector - it uses the heat gathered, and cooling the PV keeps as much of the added efficiency as possible.

The thing is though, it all comes down to how much of the sun's energy you can gather - and that comes from the area the sunlight shines on.

[oil pan 4]

I will just take the solar panels that create the most W for the least $.

[All Darc]

Insolight marketing strategy focus on instalation cost, converters, roof stuff to add and fit the panels...
They said (but I found exagerated) that the panels today (average panels) cost only 20% of total cost. But I bet it cost at least 40%.

Smaller panels with more power require less roof work. But what about converters ?

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I will just take the solar panels that create the most W for the least $.

[oil pan 4]

Name brand grid tie inverters are cheap, like 10 cents a watt for multi kw units.
My outback sunny boy secure power supply is more like 30 cents a watt, depending on what size I get. Idk having all those solar panels and not being able to use any of the power being made by the solar panels when the power goes out seems dumb.
Mounting costs are totally dependent on your roof.
If you have a semi ideal roof, metal roof pointed south at a decent angle like I have, racking will cost almost nothing.
Single axis mounts add up to 20%, maybe up to 50%, but that's comparing panel mounts to really cheap 50 cent a watt panels.
2 axis mounts could double the cost.

On a terracotta roof, mounting is probably going to be the majority of the cost.

I'm going with huge panels, at least 325 watt. I saw some 470 watt panels I like.

There are so many panels at so many price points, you have "12v panels" which are small and cost around $1 a watt typically, they could use these panels as your example.
Small 100 panels are going to need a crap load of hard ware compared to the same power coming from 470w panels.

But know this, hardware and material costs like mounts, wire, conduit, batteries, fuel for a generator and labor always go up. Electronics, solar panels, charge controllers, inverters have been going down.

[All Darc]

Uhhn, almost like I imagined.
These Insolight guys will need to get better and lower cost opticals, and Chinese workmanship, and wait a bit until multi junction get somewhat cheaper (a new manufacturer technic using vapor deposition promisse lower cost in few years) to their concentrator get some sense on market.

Their optical system do not really replace tracking. The panel in a low angle to the sun get a smaller area of sun's cross section, since the sun light get more spreeded in a larger area (of the panel in low angle) than the area of the sun's cross section light. The photons get more spaced over panel's surface area.
The system helps a lot I bet, but not as much as a real tracking system. Do you agree ?

You ecomodder crew should start a school for investors, a science school. Or adviser...

I guess how many people are wise with money but not strong in science, and get fooled but many hoax of start-ups.

Do you remamber about a guy who collect a lot of money to start a company named Soylent ?

He used to say he found a cure to worldwide hungry, using aminoacids and carbohydrated and vitamins in powder, and some minerals, to produce a powder food that require just water, creating a kind of milk with all nutrients body needs.
But the idiot just mixed whey protein (from milk), Maltodextrin (from corn), and synthetic vitamins, and addedsome minerals.
He spoke like these proteins and carbohydrates come just from lab, with no need of farm or cow. And many people believed hin, sent money... In one picture of the webpage he was smilling similar to Steve Jobs look, even hair cut making hin look like Steve in early Apple days, and this got many dumb investors, I bet it got.

[All Darc]

Fast question: What about sunpower?
On Ebay there are good condition used panels with prices nearly like chinese panels, and Sunpower life span it's much higher (Sunpower said).

https://www.ebay.com/p/10pcs-of-SunP...d=263946836816


If sunpower last 3 times more (much less efficience degradation each year), the price in this sense it's reduced, but this for very long time consideration (a life maybe) and in 60 year something much better would have come out.
But used models in good shape are atractive in prices.

Here on Brazil people sell used things for high price, some people even try to fool other placing the price of a new, while on USA they give very nice prices for fast salles.

[redpoint5]

The US has less of a bargaining culture. Generally prices are as advertised, so that means sellers must list their best price from the beginning. Instead of haggling the price, we constantly have "sale" prices. It serves the same purpose as bargaining; to make the customer feel like they got a good deal.

I haven't been to Brazil, so I don't know if haggling is common in negotiating price. New vehicles and mattresses are 2 common items we still haggle the price for. I don't know why mattresses still carry such a high markup, and have salespeople we have to negotiate price with. Most all other goods have fixed prices with relatively low markup (profit margin).

[freebeard]

I wish I could sell a used car for my asking price.

Energy Matters:FLAT PLATE VS. EVACUATED TUBE SOLAR HOT WATER COLLECTORS/

These evacuated tubes are more efficient (and expensive) than a flat plate collector. If these tubes were inclined on a N-S axis at an angle dependent on the latitude; and if they were spaced further apart, each with a reflective sleeve that rotates to maintain an orientation to the Sun — then they would be still more efficient.

[redpoint5]

I tried to give away toilets I had replaced once, and had no takers.

Then instead of calling them toilets, I called them thrones, and I got creative with marketing them. One of the Craigslisters was even inspired to write a poem based on my ad. They went in an instant.

Marketing is key.

[All Darc]

The largest solar copncentrator in the world :

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._in_Israel.jpg

But by looking the photovoltaic receiver, it looks to tiny, probable getting a concentration way higher than 1000 suns.

Can just water cool something like 10.000 suns of heat in such small space ?